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Boneman

Thanks for that boss! I am the original two finger Grade 1 pianist! So I will go with not being able to play and use some of the guidance along with my instinct.

If music be the food of love, I need to go on a diet!


My Music Store www.andoverlightorchestra.co.uk

stevel

In Fugal writing (assuming you're going to stick to the Bach model), it is important to understand the Hexachord and its role in Fugal treatment.

It is also important to understand the Tonic to Dominant and vice versa relationship.

For instance, let's say your fugue subject begins:

C B C D E - then the answer will be

G F# G A B - you see - if you keep the intervals exact (called a real answer) your dominant subject enters in a different key. You may want this, or you may not, and you have to determine which you want. Many fugue subjects use the first 6 notes of the scale C D E F G A - so when transposed to the dominant, you get - G A B C D E - all notes still in the key of C. So by avoiding scale degree 7, you can more easily keep the answer "in key".

Also, if your subkect begins:
D A F A,

it can be answered by:
A E etc.
or A D

In the first, the interval of the 5th is maintained, and again it puts us into a different key (most likely). But the second answers the original Tonic to Dominant 5th with the "opposite", a Dominant to Tonic 4th. Again, this makes it easier to maintain the key and is a very common fugal device.

There are also a bunch of "classes" for Fugue subjects, with names that sort of tell where they come from ( like "ricercare" subject). Once again, Bach's WTC is the compendium for seeing the different types in action.

Fugue subjects range from 4 whole notes, to many 16th notes, and from 1 to many measures (usually under 5 though).

Bach's Art of the Fugue is a great work to study because he uses the same subject for all of the pieces - you find it upside-down, backwards, elaborated, in compound meter, etc.

As far as writing your own Fugal subject, it is also important that it be recognizable once the rest of the counterpoint gets going. One way to do this is to have it start on an off beat, another way is to have some obvious figure, like repeated notes in the subject, that won't be in the counterpoint, and another way is to have differing note values - for instance, if your subject is whole notes, and your counterpoint is 4:1, then the whole notes will be obvious when they enter against the busier 16th notes.

And a final caution - start simple! Fugue subjects are generally (generally mind you, Bach did however write some insanely elaborate ones) within an octave's range (or even within just the hexachord) and largely stepwise with leaps only to give it identity (again, the leaps can be recognized in a contrapuntal context later when all of the rest of the notes are going by step).

Hope that helps,
Steve

stevel

The other's mention of Bach's Anna Magdelena music and the Two and Three part Inventions/Sinfonia are also good recommendations. These are good counterpoint primers, and less "fugue-y" so to speak, but still rewarding study.

Since you say you can't play well Boneman, I think what you should do is study some of the Fux counterpoint?

Do you know this?

Get Fux's Gradus ad Parnassum (Counterpoint text) and work through the exercises. It takes an archaic approach (in a classical dialogue though written in ~1725) and uses a sort of Baroque/Classical view of Ecclesiastical counterpoint. But Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven all studied it. My edition even has Mozart's solutions to some of the exercises included.

Initially, they are simple melodies in long note values and then adds second voice in ever smaller values, then third voice, and so on. This is called Species Counterpoint and is the traditional way in which counterpoint is taught.

The bonus is, since you're a T-Bone player (I assume), you can play these lines yourself, or record one and play live against the recording, or get a couple of other players to play through the examples (the early ones will be easy enough to sight read).

Now, I think the practical use of Fux's approach is a bit limited. The initial guidelines are quite good, but after a point it gets to be just theory, and doesn't resemble actual music. It's better then in my opinion to switch to something like Gualdin's Practical Approach to 18th Centrury Counterpoint to get a handle on those Anna Magdelena minuets, and the Inventions, and then ultimately Fugue.

Again, all this assumes you're going to pursue the Bach model. You don't have to of course, and you could just use the general principles of fugal writing and write a contemporary version. I think both pursuits would be of value in the end.

Best,
Steve

Boneman

Many thanks for that, I am going to have a go at something short and simple this weekend then post it, throwing myself at the mercy all!(So make sure you get plenty of sleep and feel in a good mood!)

If music be the food of love, I need to go on a diet!


My Music Store www.andoverlightorchestra.co.uk

stevel

I'll be happy to look at it.

I can't tell you if it's good or not (after all, that's completely subjective) but I can tell you how it adheres to or deviates from some traditional idiom which, if you're trying to emulate, can be helpful advice.

Later,
Steve

Boneman

Well here it is then. Loadsa errors no doubt(It took ten minutes to write)Anyway I throw myself at your mercy peeps, let me know in words of no more than two syllabulls!

If music be the food of love, I need to go on a diet!


My Music Store www.andoverlightorchestra.co.uk

stevel

My Finale gives me "incompatible version".

I'm using 2003 - maybe yours is later?

Can you post it as PDF or even just .mid or audio?

Thanks,
Steve

Boneman

Thanks Steve, here is a pdf and midi

If music be the food of love, I need to go on a diet!


My Music Store www.andoverlightorchestra.co.uk

Thorolf

This is not a Fugue in any sense. Firstly, all the voices enter in the same key, while the second entry should have been a fifth away from the first one, i. e. entering on the tone e. And presenting the three voices is only a beginning, the exposition of an invention or fugue.

So this could serve as an exposition of, not a fugue, but a three part invention.

That said, the theme is nice, but the style is more renaissance than baroque, not least due to the modal slant in the countersubject, particularly line in measure 3+4 of it; the a in the 4th measure stands out especially.

Overall nice. But no Fugue.



Regards

Thorolf A. Holmboe

Boneman

Thanks T I will get onto it NOW!

If music be the food of love, I need to go on a diet!


My Music Store www.andoverlightorchestra.co.uk