Gordon Jacob Symphonies

[reith]

Gordon Jacob was known for teaching and some excellent books, including "Orchestral Technique", a small book on orchestration/arranging (around 160 pages) but packed front to back with info, tips, examples. It cuts to the chase where other books waffle on and on....

Little is heard of his music. Just another of dozens of composers displaced by the BBC and priggish critical fashion trying to oust tonality in favour of serialism in the 1960s.

Lyrita has issued a CD (SRCD.315) of his Symphonies 1 & 2. They come over as spirited but fairly conventional for their time 1928 / 1945 - with a disctinctive sound however; some tense moments. They're both more engaging than Bax' 1st written in 1922; also compund my suspicions that Vaughan Williams is overrated in the fame stakes. Not knowing the scores, I can't comment on how well Barry Wordsworth/ London Philharmonic brings them off but they sound excellent - the usual Lyrita kind of sound.

These are works I'll listen to occasionally - they won't sink to the bottom of my CD pile - the sort of music that will make a good background while doing something else.

I think this is the only current recording of Jacob's orchestral music - the catalogue contains a few chamber pieces and Lyrita has, or is about to, issue Jacobs' Horn Concerto (along with other Horn Concertos including Ruth Gipps).

reith

[some guy]

Just another of dozens of composers displaced by the BBC and priggish critical fashion trying to oust tonality in favour of serialism in the 1960s.

One hears this kind of assertion from time to time, and always with the well-poisoning adjectives, too. But how true is it? A second of thought would lead one to suspect that it's absurd. Why would an organization in the business of making money try to oust money making music in favor of (and here's the other thing one hears a lot) music that no one likes nor ever will? Neither one of those assertions is true on its own, I trow, but certainly they cannot both be true at the same time. Either serial music was (is) liked enough to make corporate executives take notice, or the BBC never displaced (le mot juste?) anyone. The answer may lie in Reith's own assessment that Jacob's music will serve as

good background while doing something else.

Perhaps Jacob was never seen as a money maker?

Think for a second (another second, of course) about fashion, too. How does an idea become fashionable? It doesn't just happen in a vacuum. Like it or hate it, a idea only becomes fashionable if enough people adopt it. I'm not saying anything about quality, mind. Some really daffy notions become fashionable. Why, the idea that organizations suppressed tonal music in the twentieth century is pretty fashionable, come to think of it! But with serialism, we come up against the other thing, which probably is true, that serialism had not quite caught on with audiences by 1960. See how difficult it is to take Reith's assertion at face value? Music that's definitely NOT popular, that people are avoiding in droves (apparently), has nonetheless engendered a fashionable critical trend, has nonetheless caused conservative business executives to band together in an attempt to oust tonality?

"Priggish critical fashion" is all well and good, but it will never bring home any bacon, nor will it ever have the almost universal power to make or break careers that is attributed to it.

For a likelier scenario, imagine if you will a third-rate composer of tonal music: "I never get performed, because I courageously chose tonality as my path. And tonality is not fashionable." Imagine now, for fairness sake, a third-rate composer of serial music: " I never get performed, because I courageously chose the unpopular but artistically valid path of serialism." Yes. You've spotted the common thread, third-rate. But wait, there are two threads. Both imaginary composers have imagined a putative cause for their failure: a world of fashion that's turned its back on them.

Blame successfully shifted.

[reith]

Originally Posted by some guy

One hears this kind of assertion from time to time, and always with the well-poisoning adjectives, too. But how true is it? A second of thought would lead one to suspect that it's absurd.....
....Either serial music was (is) liked enough to make corporate executives take notice, or the BBC never displaced (le mot juste?) anyone. The answer may lie in Reith's own assessment that Jacob's music will serve as Perhaps Jacob was never seen as a money maker?

And serial music WAS a money maker?

I think if you look at the history, when William Glock took over as Controller of Music in 1960, his first act was to abolish a committee that decided programming including the proms putting the job entirely in his hands. Been the same ever since. Glock decided that serial and the Boulez line was the way forward. One of my composition teachers (who is definitely no money spinner) got works performed, another also did but her mother a non-serial composer (for want of a better term) failed to. So it was nigh impossible for a new composer to get non-serial (or non-noisy) works performed...which reduced public exposure to just concerts. Sure, some tonal music got broadcast but this was almost all popular repertoire from the likes of Holst and Elgar.

Think for a second (another second, of course) about fashion, too. How does an idea become fashionable? It doesn't just happen in a vacuum. Like it or hate it, a idea only becomes fashionable if enough people adopt it.

I'd say if they're sold it or forced. I'm reminded of the microskirt saga in 1970 (wasn't there, wish I was!). Apparently the mini-skirt would not go in spite of many attempts to sell new 'fashion'. So the tat-manufacturers got together with retail outlets like Selfridges, John Lewis etc who finally forced their staff to wear the new calf-length skirts - or else. The music scene seems to have taken this route in the 60s/70s in elite circles like the colleges and academies. I was, you might say, a victim, done over for being "conventional" - ironic, because they went to trouble to prove I could write 4-part harmony, species, fugues and such...only to tell me that wasn't wanted! So I played along, came up with some (tongue in cheek) "modern" stuff (I won't talk about it except it was a joke - anyone could have done as well with dice) and that was the business. Once I took an interest in Lutyens, Bedford and Ferneyhough, all was well.

As I see it, one's performance chances depend on who can be found to do the promotion, assuming the composer is competent.

[some guy]

I did hesitate to comment on the original post, not just because it was not about Jacob, but because I didn't want to take on the whole Glock issue. My attempt to sidestep that was not noticeably successful. Then it occurred to me, the aptness of the saying "One swallow does not a summer make." You know, I've read a lot about Mr. Glock here and there, but only from detractors. I know some people liked him and admired his policies (which were never so formal as to be "policies" by the way), but I've personally only read things written by the others.

Here's the most balanced thing I've ever found about Glock, indeed about the whole issue of fashion and taste you bring up in relation to Jacob:

"... it is certainly the case that there was a concerted effort by William Glock and others at the BBC in the 1950s and 1960s to extend the musical horizons of their audience, and a non-modernist composer like Berthold Goldschmidt really was neglected, partly for doctrinaire reasons. So was George Lloyd.... All that means is that musical fashion, like any other kind, goes in cycles; it wasn't many decades ago that any composer who merely tried to keep abreast of what was happening in continental Europe was liable to suffer from the same persecution. Elisabeth Lutyens studied at the Royal College of Music in the 1920s when "Brahms was the god of the new music." She was one of the first English composers fruitfully to digest serial technique, and was ignored to the point where, for much of her life, she lived in poverty." --Geoffrey Wheatcroft (Prospect Magazine)

"Extend the musical horizons of their audience." Wow. Geoff's not much of a detractor, you might be saying. But what a difference even a mustard seed's worth of balance and fairness can make. And I wonder, what did Glock think of himself? Only his putative arrogance comes across in the writings of the detractors. But maybe, just maybe, William Glock thought of himself as a kind of John the Baptist, you know the line I mean, from that German transplant to England back in the day: "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness..." Hmmmm.

[reith]

It's ok. I was expressing a sentiment simply based on my view of the marketplace. I'm broadminded musically, would be happier not to see Gordon Jacob et al neglected, nor Twelve-tone Lizzie, Jerry Dale-Roberts and others.

Your quotes about Glock show that a range of views is possible. I didn't hear all negative but I'm never happy with autocrats when their intentions are questionable and no one's around to do the questioning. It's a managerial strategy suited to certain organisational conditions but - as far as I know - no such conditions prevailed when Glock took over music programming.
One can hardly call his programme development horizon-broadening.

No matter, what's done is done and Glock's 'policy' has been ameliorated in recent times. You were right - it wasn't a policy as much as an opportunity to implement a hidden agenda.

Originally Posted by some guy

......."The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness..." Hmmmm.

That's Cliff Richard, surely.

[some guy]

Tee hee. Cliff Richard it is, then.

Now if we could get a cd of Twelve-tone Lizzie and Jerry Dale-Roberts, that would be a real treat!!

Well, one thing is sure. You've piqued my curiosity about Mr. Gordon Jacobs, damn it! I'm on a tight budget here...

[Violoncello]

I don't think classical music will ever be a money-spinner. The Four Seasons and things of that ilk might but it's well known that EMI popular music subsidises its classical side. So on the base of money-spinning we'd have to give up classical altogether. Naxos keeps expenses down at the A&R stage. I don't know about Chandos who come up with a few for (I guess) a minority of fanatics and buying public.

[reith]

Originally Posted by some guy

Now if we could get a cd of Twelve-tone Lizzie and Jerry Dale-Roberts, that would be a real treat!!

Elizabeth Lutyens has a couple of CDs out there issued by NMC and one on Redcliffe (her oboe quartet), includes a rather beautiful oboe solo composed by Frances Routh.

I have a recording of her "Suddenly it's Evening" and cannot believe the work has yet to be released on CD. Perhaps I should start writing letters....Now if Mr Glock were to take over EMI, we might get these works going!

Jeremy Dale Roberts also has one...but it's there! Try "Winter Music" (now if Barber hadn't written a Summer Music maybe I'd have a go at that!)

Well, one thing is sure. You've piqued my curiosity about Mr. Gordon Jacobs, damn it! I'm on a tight budget here...

Just slightly more substance than Cliff Richards but unless you like the 1900-1950 music of the genre... tch! Maybe better to look out for Dale-Roberts or Cliff!

[stevel]

Gordon Jacob was known for teaching and some excellent books, including "Orchestral Technique", a small book on orchestration/arranging (around 160 pages) but packed front to back with info, tips, examples. It cuts to the chase where other books waffle on and on....

Little is heard of his music.

Our Wind Ensemble performs quite a bit of GJ. Not to mention Holst's wind music (something other than a transcription of the Planets thank God). Every single GJ piece I've ever heard has been incredibly well-crafted and appealing. It is unfortunate his works are not that well-known. But then again, the same could be said about Telemann, Machaut, Haydn and so on, compared to Bach, Josquin, Beethoven, and so on.

GJ seems to be on a list of composers that were concentrating on craft rather than simply trying to be provactive. Samuel Barber, Walter Piston, Roy Harris - etc. come to mind - composers whose music has been overshadowed in history by other factors. Fortunately, it seems that now a balancing act is being struck and those composers that are being recognized not as trend-setters, but as experimentalists, and the other composers whose craft and artistry is comprehensible are being recognized (albeit slowly) as the main currents in music.

Best,
Steve

[some guy]

Fortunately, it seems that now a balancing act is being struck and those composers that are being recognized not as trend-setters, but as experimentalists, and the other composers whose craft and artistry is comprehensible are being recognized (albeit slowly) as the main currents in music.

OUCH!!