Igor Stravinsky

[stevel]

I have to confess never getting on with Stravinsky apart from the Rite of Spring, the Cantata - to a lesser extent, the Symphony of Psalms. The rest seems to be insomnia treatment.

Having heard the Rite first, I kind of assumed it existed in this vacuum - like Beethoven symphs - there's 1 then 2, then POW, Eroica. But as I listened more, it became obvious that Firebird and Petrushka were evolutionarily speaking right before the Rite. This didn't lessen my opinion of the Rite, but instead, raised my opinion of those two works. If you don't know the Firebird, you really should give it a go - there's a suite version too, which is good if you don't have a lot of time to devote to it. If you like Rite, I don't see how you can't like Firebird unless it's too "tame" for you :-)

The interesting thing about Strav is he lived long enough to go through a couple of stylistic periods. L'histoire is nice (if you like music drama sort of things), but Ragtime, the Octet for winds, Serenade in La, Ebony Concerto, Symphony in C, and the Symphony in 3 movements are all worth checking out (and a lot of variety there) if these haven't already put you to sleep.

About the Rite, it's a masterpiece of composition and orchestration though, having studied the score in detail it looks like he could have simplified the placement of bar lines.

He did - or he didn't depending on which version you studied - Strav revised many of his early works multiple times - the Rite was "simplified" in terms of meter and barlines. You'll also see the 1911 and 1917 versions of two works, etc.

Best,
Steve

[some guy]

If you can find Dorati's second recording of the Rite, you'll hear very clear echoes of Petrushka. He worked on those two pieces simultaneously, so that could be expected, but most conductors (including Stravinsky) downplay those echoes.

[reith]

Originally Posted by stevel

If you don't know the Firebird, you really should give it a go - there's a suite version too, which is good if you don't have a lot of time to devote to it. If you like Rite, I don't see how you can't like Firebird unless it's too "tame" for you :-)

Hi Steve,

I'm familiar with Firebird as a ballet in which it works well. As an independent concert piece it lacks to me, where the Rite stands perfectly well. I sometimes get the impression that with Firebird, Stravinsky was trying to out-do his teacher with a few flashy orchestral effects. Just a personal view but he didn't. (Although I'm tending at this very moment to compare it with Scheherezade which is a bit unfair.) However, the Rite is a different matter.

The Firebird suite seems just as drizzly, just a couple of up-tempo numbers and all timed to fit onto 8 sides of 78s. It seems a bit more inventive than some of his later ballets like The Fairy's Kiss.

cheers,
reith.

ps. I'm happy to be rude about Stravinsky because he was rude about Ravel!

[reith]

In fact, I was listening/score reading Villa-Lobos' Uirapuru last night and realised that Villa-Lobos was a way more innovative orchestrator than Stravinsky. Which raises the question - was Stravinsky hampered by having such an excellent teacher? Was his orchestral ear too channelled by Rimsky?

Villa-Lobos was self-taught as a composer but either studied plenty of scores or had enough of an ear to deduce what was going on in music he heard, bearing in mind that recording was still in infancy. (He might have encountered Stravinsky's music (dubious) though he certainly heard Debussy, met Milhaud, etc. If Diaghilev staged Stravinsky, Uirapuru was under way by then.) Uirapuru and surrounding works tell that he knew pretty well what he was up to.

He faced considerably more of a fight to stage his works than Stravinsky and may have benefitted by the lack of a formal musical hierarchy/career prospects in Brasil to spur his creativity.

reith

[igorwam]

How can you have a favorite piece of Stravinsky? The man's list is just so rich. From The Rite to Movements, there is just so much variety. I think the essence of Stravinsky is his playfulness, the way he continually plays with the possibilities. I feel this sence of play is the same sence of play that people talk about in a great mathmetician or physicist. I feel the same sense of play in Mozart.
For that reason, I want to mention one work which has not been mentioned yet, Petrouchka. I always hope that someone will committ a barbarism and rewrite it as the piano concerto it started out as.

PS I am glad that several people mentioned CANTATA. It is usually considered the acrid end of his neo-classicism, but I love that work and feel it anticipates some of Britten.

[stevel]

Originally Posted by igorwam

For that reason, I want to mention one work which has not been mentioned yet, Petrouchka.

I did :-)

Steve