Ready for Composition, Boss!

[TheSorrowsPain]

Greetings, Fellow Musicians,

I have been reading a lot into music theory and I read a lot about music notation (thanks to this forum) and I have finally decided to compose a piece of my own. Sadly, I am stuck in a rut that doesn't want to let me out for some reason. I was wondering: do you guys, without notation software, use blank sheet music to set notes and things for all the instruments in a particular piece. This can also be answered by those of you who do have music noation and write down the music before you being placing it into the ole' computer screen there.
This has dawned on me because I have tried this before and I don't know what I need to do. Usually, I write down all of the instruments I will be using and then I just start writing down notes on how the piece will go. <--- This meaning I actually write down what happens in the composition (notes, dynamics, tempos, etc...) before I actually begin putting them onto the instruments corresponding staff. Now, I find this to be very helpful, but I was just wondering if this is a good way to get everything in an organized fashion for the overall composition.
In response to my dilema, I am also taking a Music Theory class in my high school next year and I will be making a composition for that class to be played by our school band; I'm pretty psyched about this!!!. Anyway, I feel that I've learned a ton with music theory, but when it comes down to the composition, I feel I'm being held under water with a cement block tied to my foot. If you can help, that would be great and I will be sure to acknowledge you with chocolate chip cookies if I can actually make them.

Peace,

C. Winston

[Thorolf]

Hi, my man!

You need exactly two things to compose (apart from basic knowledge), and that is ears and love. If you really love music, you should be able to fiddle around with some ideas, till you find something that turn you on. It can be a sound, a particular instrumentation, a subject, a rhythm, a chord, anything. Start from there. Then, to compose from that, use your ears: What sounds good alongside this? What happens now?

Then you hopefully come up with a part of some composition. Repeat the former procedure. When you have enough jigsaw pieces, some of them will fit together, making for constructive contrast and drama.



Regards

[stevel]

Originally Posted by TheSorrowsPain

I was wondering: do you guys, without notation software, use blank sheet music to set notes and things for all the instruments in a particular piece.

C.

What you seem to be talking about is a common method. People like Tchaikovsky would make a piano sketch of their piece, then orchestrate it. John Williams does (or did, or does do) the same thing (in fact a lot of hollywood composers do this).

Basically you can do this:
1. Write on Grand Staff (Bass and Treble like Piano) then score for instruments.

2. Write on dual Grand Staves then score.

3. Write as score.

It's a misconception to think that all composers started writing a work "as score". Many do, but many do not. Many do it differently depending on what they're working on.

The trick is, to find what you're most comfortable with. For instance, if you're a pianist, it might be easier for you to compose in that kind of notation, and then later orchestrate/arrange it for other ensemble. The advantage of this used to be that you could play it (or have someone play it) to check it, and you've got a ready-made piano arrangement already when you're done (which used to be big sellers). Nowadays with MIDI though, most people can score directly, so they do score directly.

The other part of this - do you do notation first, then put it in Finale, etc. I tend to do a lot more writing directly in Finale but I still do plenty of sketch-work by hand. It's way quicker to do it by hand (especially if you're not familiar with Finale etc.). Even a lot of time, if I do it in Finale, I'll still draw in slurs and stuff by hand because it's so much quicker. Of course the advantage to this is having publisher-ready printouts when you're done.

The down-side of notation software - and the things I'd really caution you about:
1. Watch out because a lot of time you can spend so much time looking up how to enter a fermata (or whatever) in your score that you lose the flow of the piece you're working on.
2. Don't use notation software as a "crutch" - it should be a tool with which to notate, not "compose". It's OK to "compose into" notation software, but you should hopefully be using your mind (and ears) and not software tricks.

Having said all that, I think it's really important in this day and age to be able to get your thoughts down in both manuscript notation and computrer notation, so you should really work on both.

Best,
Steve

[chckn8r]

As Stevel and Thorolf said, there's no "proper" way to approach composition.

If you've got a particular "sound" in your head and know which instruments you'd like to have play that, then by all means, start with a score, or you can just as easily work things out at the piano too then orchestrate / arrange it later.

One thing I found that hamstrung me in my first forays into composition was ... theory. I found that having all these rules in my head were great and I loved analyzing works and all that good stuff. But I never was able to figure out how I couldn't write stuff that wasn't mundane or ... blah.

When I just started using my ears (as Thorolf wisely advises) and not really worrying about whether such and such a chord "fits" in such and such a scale, then things started opening up.

One way you might work through this is, when you're writing, come up with a "kernel" that's simple and pleasing to you. Harmonize it with basic triad chords, play it over and over again, each time trying out different rhythms, different chords, etc.

Look at your key notes in your melody - what other chords would fit (don't limit yourself to the key your in - if there's a "G", try every chord you can think of that has a "G" in it. Try adding 7ths, 9ths, suspend the 4ths, use whole tone scales.

Don't think about the theory until after you've found something you like - then try and explain it with your knowledge of theory afterwards if you like. It doesn't matter if you can't - if it sounds good to you, then that's all that matters.

Good luck! D

[TheSorrowsPain]

Oh my God, Guys,

Thanks for all this helpful information. You guys never fail to answer my stupid questions. I'll try to go with you guys say and build on the way I do it. Usually, when I start notation, I write for individual parts, but I think I will start scoring for the entire ensemble. Thank you so much.

Peace,

C. Winston:grin:

[Stenir]

Just be careful. I've seen a few friends fail at composing because they take a generic instrumentation and get frustrated trying to create parts for every instrument listed. Write music to write music, not to fill the instrumentation. The instrumentation should be one of your final worries.

In every way possible, remember also that if you want a certain section to be played by woodwinds or even a particular instrument, note that down.

When I write scores, I compose them "as scores". But there's a difference than most. I may notate two lines for Bb Clarinets, but I don't immediately go 1st on the top and 2nd and 3rd on the bottom. I don't set a number for each instrument. As I compose, if I need a 3rd part, I'll add it. If I don't, then it'll just be 1st and 2nd. Then I can go back through the piece and add a 3rd part to flesh out the piece.

So, yeah, fit the instrumentation to the music, not the music to an instrumentation.

Hopefully, that gives you my viewpoint.

[TheSorrowsPain]

Wow,

Thank you, Stenir. You hit the nail right on the head. I did try to fit the music to the instrumentation instead of the other way around. Well, I stopped working on that composition and am currently working on a newer piece that I will notate for piano and then change it to Concert Band instrumentation.

Peace,

C. Winston

[Stenir]

Thinking of this as an afterthought:

Orchestration is a funky thing. Remember that there is a reason the condensed score is set up the way it is (condensed = conductor for this case, but not always). I want to say High Middle Low for the staves, but don't always go on that. Just remember that there are different tone colors, for example Horns and Saxophones sound different from Horns and Clarinets.

But both are in similar registers.

Try different things out for each section. I normally do two or three different orchestrations for each section before picking on the one I like best (sometimes, I have to go back and combine the Flute from one section with the Clarinets/Saxophones from the second, etc.).

Find what works for you, honestly.

Other than that, can't wait to see/hear your composition. Make sure to post it so we can see it also.

Hmm...this brings to mind an interesting idea...Write a song section by section with multiple orchestrations, and have the Music-Web members vote on which section should be used. It'd be a composition by one of us, but a colloboration by all.

[TheSorrowsPain]

Originally Posted by Stenir

Thinking of this as an afterthought:

Orchestration is a funky thing. Remember that there is a reason the condensed score is set up the way it is (condensed = conductor for this case, but not always). I want to say High Middle Low for the staves, but don't always go on that. Just remember that there are different tone colors, for example Horns and Saxophones sound different from Horns and Clarinets.

But both are in similar registers.

Try different things out for each section. I normally do two or three different orchestrations for each section before picking on the one I like best (sometimes, I have to go back and combine the Flute from one section with the Clarinets/Saxophones from the second, etc.).

Find what works for you, honestly.

Other than that, can't wait to see/hear your composition. Make sure to post it so we can see it also.

Hmm...this brings to mind an interesting idea...Write a song section by section with multiple orchestrations, and have the Music-Web members vote on which section should be used. It'd be a composition by one of us, but a colloboration by all.

Stenir,

Thanks for your helpful advice. That part about writing a section for multiple orchestrations sounds like a good idea. I may do that when I get my manuscripts finished. I just need to find the time to sit down at a piano/keyboard and begin. There's this Music Theory class at my high school that I am currently enrolled in and we are going to be writing our own pieces. I also recently picked up a notation book, so, I'm pretty much getting my next piece ready.

Peace,

C. Winston

[Stenir]

Man, I wish I was in your high school. I have never had any formal training (unless you count reading about a hundred books with conflicting theories) with anything theory, contrapuntal, harmony, etc...even composition.

Guess I just fell in it.

Ask your teacher if I could throw something their way? LOL.

We could be your teacher's students. Forget the actual class.

j/k