triple stops question, violin

[salv]

Hi! i just wanted to know if anyone can help me out with this. are these two triple stops possible on the violin? do they present any complications?

thankyou very much!

salv

[Thorolf]

In general, triple stops on bowed instruments make sense only for percussive attacks of the first kind, or tenuto in extreme sul tasto, but in the second case it’s not balanced, nor very effective. For prolonged notes, one generally writes the two upper notes to full length, and the single bottom note as an eight note, making it quasi arpeggio.

Also in general, perfect fifths on stopped notes usually get a little out of pitch and is to be avoided on prolonged notes.

Conclusion: There are no problems whatsoever with the first kind, but two with the second kind.



Regards

[MOVED to appropriate forum]

[salv]

thankyou very much!

[stevel]

Originally Posted by salv

Hi! i just wanted to know if anyone can help me out with this. are these two triple stops possible on the violin? do they present any complications?

thankyou very much!

salv

I should note, in addition to what Thorolf said, that the first example contains two open strings, and thus the upper note is really inconsequential - as long as the top note is playable on the first string, you're OK. But, for those reading, if the lower two notes are not open strings (one or both) you start to run into more problems (not necessarily insurmountable problems - it depends on the configuration).

It should also be noted that even though the event may be notated as a short, loud group, the open strings will ring a little bit unless stopped by the left hand - and being able to do so depends on what comes after.

As for the second example, I wanted to point out that the upper two notes are a perfect 5th which in my experiences is not one of the sting player's favorite intervals - you must play the two notes on adjacent strings and it's difficult to play in tune because of the way your fingers fall. If the top note were a G instead, you'd have a quite common configuration (in fact, usually the open G would be on the bottom for a Quadruple stop, played arpeggiated with the upper notes held as Thorolf described).

As yet another side note, many bluegrass fiddlers carve their bridge so that the curvature of the highest three strings is very slight to facilitate playing triple (or alternating between double) stops. But with the "standard" curvature, the only way to get triple stops with any reliability is with a fair amount of bow pressure, which means pianissimo is not very practical.

Best,
Steve

[salv]

thanks steve!

[jonesmusiclife]

ok hey look... you really just wanted to know if they were POSSIBLE, no? i play the violin, and yes, they are fine. there is NOTHING uncomfortable about playing fiths. violins are TUNED in 5ths. unless you have like a 10-year-old paying this, then they might get kinda ticked off that you threw that in there.

anywho...
the first is a very natural chord to any string instrument, and all you really did differently was raise the top note an 8ve higher.

there's nothing wrong with the second chord... it's out of context so there could be a better config., ect., but when you're talking about technical crap on string instruments, hey, it doesn't make a big difference. believe me, string players are used to having abusive fingerings thrown at them, and there's nothing they can't handle.
my advice: just leave it as-is

[stevel]

Originally Posted by jonesmusiclife

ok hey look... you really just wanted to know if they were POSSIBLE, no? i play the violin, and yes, they are fine. there is NOTHING uncomfortable about playing fiths. violins are TUNED in 5ths. unless you have like a 10-year-old paying this, then they might get kinda ticked off that you threw that in there.

Interesting. I wonder why comments like:

Beyond the limitation of physical reach, the next important consideration in double stops is the difficult interval of the perfect fifth on the violin, viola, and cello and the corresponding interval on the string bass - the perfect fourth.

abound in writings about the instrument, in orchestration books, and in comments from players.

I guess they're all wrong.

[chckn8r]

Originally Posted by stevel

I guess they're all wrong.

Or they're playing one of those new-fangled fretted violins!

[salv]

Thankyou very much for the help everyone. You were all really helpful!