Does anyone write in modes?

[reith]

Originally Posted by ttw

Locrian

The problem with that one is that cadence is impossible, even a plagal. Even so, Peter Mennin used it a bit.

And where was Locria anyway?

Just south of Croydon, turn right at the Swan and Sugarloaf.


Modes have always equalled scales (for me) and come in all shapes and sizes. If you mean the modes starting on II and up to VII, I do use them but unconsciously and not thoughout a whole piece.

[MaestroX]

To be honest as soon as I had an awareness of keys i've never wrote in modes.
More recently though I have experimented with a few but found them to be not usefull to be used for an entire piece. I find that writing in a mode for a short space of time (in a film piece i'm working on) its usefull to build up texture and tension but not found them usefull melodically.
What does everyone else think?

On the subject of modes there are a vast array of them, greek modes, church modes, authentic modes, jazz modes ,the list goes on. What are the difference between these different sets? Is it just from what period of time they come from? Because in essence a mode is just a pattern of tones and semi-tones. So what differentiates the different types?

[Shiva]

Modes? I've never heard of them before. Can someone explain for me pls

[Bassoonery]

When I say modes I refer to the "scales" used in Medieval times. If you play from A to A on a piano using only white notes you have played the Aeolian mode. This mode can of course be transposed (so it doesn't always use A to A white notes) but the intervals of the mode will match with the A to A intervals. There is a name for the modes based on each white note octave:

C - Ionian
D - Dorian (eg What shall we do with a drunken sailor)
E - Phrygian
F - Lydian
G - Mixolydian
A - Aeolian
B - Locrian

These were used by monks etc before we had the tonal major/minor system we have today. The Greek philosophers wrote about modes with same name but I think their modes were slightly different. These days more modes exist and are made - these are basically new sequences of notes that can be used as a core for composition or improvisation. The old modes are still heard in folk music.

Hope that helps!

[Bassoonery]

Also, as you can see, our major scale is the same as the Ionian mode.

[ttw]

Also, as you can see, our major scale is the same as the Ionian mode.

True as far as the sequence of notes goes. The modal usage has different "functions" for the chords. The Tonic-Dominant-Subdominant functions are not really part of the modal usage. Similarly for the Aeolian mode

[Thorolf]

^ True.

Lots of chinese music uses the ordinary major scale, but not relying on the “dominant-tonic” idea. It more often relies on typical parallel tonality changes where the tension is between triads one third away from eachother. It’s a whole other mindset, and indeed modal as opposed to functional (you also find traditional western functional relations in other chinese contemporary music).

Regards

[Bassoonery]

Also, as you can see, our major scale is the same as the Ionian mode.

True as far as the sequence of notes goes. The modal usage has different "functions" for the chords. The Tonic-Dominant-Subdominant functions are not really part of the modal usage. Similarly for the Aeolian mode

oops! my apologies. I mentioned earlier in this thread that I should like to know more about how different modes were used during the medieval times... Although I think it might be quite complicated to understand due to our current tonal way of thinking?

[ttw]

It's really tricky to understand what "modes" are all about. The fifth edition of Groves has a pretty good article on modes. (I don't know about the sixth.) I don't have access to a library so I haven't looked at it in a while.

As I (probably mis-) understand things, the Greeks wrote about modes but exactly what was meant isn't well understood today. The chant codifiers tried to codify chants according to their own misperception of Greek theory. Chants don't all fit neatly into modes.

The medievalists continued to slightly change the meanings of the terms to fit composers practice. So on down through the renaissance.

There's sort of a punctuated equilibrium going on; mostly small changes with some big jumps like Ars Antigua vs Ars Nova; the change to the Baroque (about 1600) with freer use of unprepared dissonance and emphasis on the words; the change to "tonic-dominant" tonality about the time of Corelli; the change (by CPE Bach and Haydn) to the "classical" style, etc.

[Thorolf]

To put it brutally: “Modes” and modality has become a collective term of all triad-based, diatonically scaled music not fitting in to the classical functionality.

But what we think about in ordianry use, is the medieval scales quoted by Bassonery. Few western oriented composers have a more in-depth understanding of the harmonic implications of modality. In a traditional dorian song, the “dominant”, i. e. the triad on the fifth step, is a minor. The closing phrase of “What shall we do with the drunken sailor” is traditionally this very minor chord, or its parallel major chord (a minor and C major, respectively in d dorian).

Another important implication, is that there can be assumed a tension between other chords than dominant-tonic, like neighbouring ones (in the dorian example, d minor and C major), and that the doninant-tonic relation is not present, or not important at all.

In folk music from the Balkan countries, a good example is the scale that goes like this: A Bb C# D E F G A, i. e. an phrygian scale with a major third. Many themes are revolving around the chord pair A major and g minor, where A major plays the part of the “tonic” and the g minor plays the part of the “dominant”. It’s complete with the semitone leading to the tonic tone, only in this setting, this leading tone comes from above, Bb-A, not from below (as in traditional functional dominant-tonic, E major-A major, G#-A).

As I said, it’s a whole other mindset, and I feel kind of sorry for those stuck in the western traditional functional theory of harmony, as I never found this particularly interresting in the outset.

Regards