American Folk Tunes?

[high_school_bassoonist]

ok, i dont know if anyone has ever tried this, but how would one go about writing a piece of music styled upon that of American folk tunes .. ie Yankee doodle etc..(of course there are better examples , but i live in Australia) cheers.

[MaestroX]

They are usally aranged quite well for concert band or marching band. So why don't you start off with a simple cheesy melody and just apply some simple "Omm Pah" accompaniment on the brass

[Ballaw de Quincewold]

I you want to write an American folk tune all you have to do is use only the pentonic scale (black keys). If you only use thos notes for the melody almost any tune you write will sound like a cheesy American folk tune.

[Bassoonery]

But using pentatonic can also sound Chinese or Scottish! Blues scale might be another option.

I've got Yankee Doodle and similar pieces for bassoon by the way, with interesting (!) variations. I'll check the copyright if youu're interested coz I think they're out of print.

[JimmyJOL]

Hello:

Why would the folk tunes of any culture be considered "cheesy"? As far as I can tell, most folk melodies are fairly simple and the subjects are related to specific aspects of that culture. Certainly, in some cases, substantial bodies of "serious" music have been derived from folk music, e.g. Bartok and some Russian symphonic music. However, I believe this has to do with the commitment of those composers rather than the inherent merit or lack of the folk music itself. I also realize that, nowadays, many people throughout the world have an automatic negative reaction to all things American (meaning USA). However, I question the validity of calling any particular folk tradition "cheesy" just because it's simple either in structure or subject. To my mind, this is the very essence of most folk traditions in art, literature, crafts and music.

Be well,

Jimmy

[stevel]

Originally Posted by high_school_bassoonist

ok, i dont know if anyone has ever tried this, but how would one go about writing a piece of music styled upon that of American folk tunes .. ie Yankee doodle etc..(of course there are better examples , but i live in Australia) cheers.

My first advice would be to tell you to listen to a lot of pieces like this. It also depends on what genre you'd like to work in. You could do the Stephen Foster song-like style where it's really about a melody and simple accompaniment. or, you could go for the Sousa march type thing or Cowboy Song thing. There are also more of the "national anthemy" type things (is Austrailia also some version of "God Save the Queen/My Country Tis of Thee?).

After listening you should try to pick out those elements that seem to best identify it. Someone mentioned pentatonic scales and it is true that a lot of simple tunes (Amazing Grace and many "coywboy" songs) are Pentatonic. I wouldn't worry about them sounding Celtic or Oriental unless you use particular rhythmic patterns and melodies (BTW, a lot of American Indian (or Native American) music has pentatonic elements).

For a Stephen Foster folk song style, I'd say the basic elements are:
Simple, unadorned melody (listen to Simple Gifts, the Shaker Hymn you hear in Appalachian Spring among other places). Lyrics to the melody if writing them should also be pretty simple and striaghforward, about everyday topics.
The melodies are largely diatonic and often outline triads, as is the harmony (same key) and harmonies usually consists of I, IV and V, occaisionally vi (Amazing Grace can be harmonized with I, IV and V, but many people put the vi on the word "blind" just for a change of pace and that's how they're used to hearing it).
Most of the songs are going to be in Cut Time, 4/4 or 3/4. 6/8 can sound a little to "Irish Jig-like".
Someone mentioned the "oom-pah" accompaniment pattern and I think that's reasonable. Most 3/4 songs are typically at a tempo where it "flows" - "Home on the Range" is a good example. Cut time songs are often up-tempo - like "Buffalo Gals". Of course songs like Yankee Doodle fall more into the realm of Marches but still you've got your left-righ two beat thing going on. Actually, I'd say in general that Cut Time is a little more common than a true 4/4 feel, which seems to be more of a modern take (Swanee River (The Old Folks at Home) is a good example).

As for the Blues scale someone mentioned, I would advise against it. While many people consider Blues a form of Folk music, or Roots music, it typically comes off very bluesy! If you want more of the what we call Traditional Folk Song, the blues scale is a little to late historically to have had much impact. We start to see it around the turn of the 1900s to the point where I'd say it's more a part of American Popular Music (which is more like Irving Berlin) and Jazz obviously.

Hope that addresses your questions.

Best,
Steve

[stevel]

Originally Posted by JimmyJOL

Hello:

Why would the folk tunes of any culture be considered "cheesy"? As far as I can tell, most folk melodies are fairly simple and the subjects are related to specific aspects of that culture. Certainly, in some cases, substantial bodies of "serious' music has been derived from folk music, e.g. Bartok and some Russian symphonic music. However, I believe this has to do with the commitment of those composers rather than the inherent merit or lack of the folk music itself. I also realize that, nowadays, many people throughout the world have an automatic negative reaction to all things American (meaning USA). However, I question the validity of calling any particular folk tradition "cheesy" just because it's simple either in structure or subject. To my mind, this is the very essence of most folk traditions in art, literature, crafts and music.

Be well,


Jimmy

I'll just jump in and say I have heard orchestral works that use Folk tunes (American) and they've been kind of "corny". I don't think it's so much the original tune as it is the way in which it was used. THe Shaker hymn in Appalachian Spring is not cheesy to me at all. But I've heard some "Americana" things where people juxtapose Yankee Doodle and Dixie (been done a million times already) or do silly trumpet horse whinnies with The Old Grey Mare and it's a little over the top. Of course I think the more well known a tune is the bigger the risk of it coming off corny since so many people are already used to a certain setting. If I were going to set something I'd try to find a more obscure tune to work with.

Best,
Steve

[JimmyJOL]

[quote="stevel"]

Originally Posted by JimmyJOL

I'll just jump in and say I have heard orchestral works that use Folk tunes (American) and they've been kind of "corny". I don't think it's so much the original tune as it is the way in which it was used. THe Shaker hymn in Appalachian Spring is not cheesy to me at all. But I've heard some "Americana" things where people juxtapose Yankee Doodle and Dixie (been done a million times already) or do silly trumpet horse whinnies with The Old Grey Mare and it's a little over the top. Of course I think the more well known a tune is the bigger the risk of it coming off corny since so many people are already used to a certain setting. If I were going to set something I'd try to find a more obscure tune to work with.

Best,
Steve

Steve:

I agree with you. As I mentioned, the quality of any symphonic work has a great deal to do with the composer. There are wonderful orchestral renditions of some of the simplest melodies from all over the world, in particular some of the English folk melodies have been arranged/orchestrated beautifully. My only point was regarding what seemed to me to be a bit of a denigration of the Folk Music itself. Perhaps I'm perceiving that incorrectly. In any case, your point is very well taken.

Be well,

Jimmy

[MaestroX]

I think the only american folk tunes I have ever come across that have been aranged for a large ensemble would be in a concert band I play in. Quite alot of Stephen Foster arangments which are quite good and nothing over the top.

[high_school_bassoonist]

thnx everyone for providing me with heaps of things to try, i'll post my composition here when i finish it thnx!!