How do you transpose?

[Ballaw de Quincewold]

How do you transpose instruments that don't play at sounding pitch? I use to know, but I forgot since I write everything at sounding pitch. Right no I'm tring to study scores, but I'm not sure how to read them. The ones that I've ran into so far are horns in F, clarinets in Bb and A, and trumpet in A.

[MaestroX]

In simple terms the note name after the instrument name means what note the instrument plays so its sounds a concert C

So for clarinet in Bb, when it plays a Bb it sounds a C.

So here's a little chart:

Clarinet in Bb = up a tone
Clarinet in A = up a minor 3rd
Horns in F = Up a 5th
Trumpet in A = Up a minor 3rd

Hope your ok with my terminology

[Thorolf]

Originally Posted by MaestroX

In simple terms the note name after the instrument name means what note the instrument plays so its sounds a concert C

So for clarinet in Bb, when it plays a Bb it sounds a C.

Oops, exactly the opposite is true!

When on a Clarinet in Bb you play a written C, it sounds a concert Bb…

Conversely, if you want the the sound of concert C, you have to write a D for a Clarinet in Bb.

So your table is true for writing for the instruments: If you write a melody on the piano in C major and want a Bb clarinet to play along, you have to write the Clarinet part in D major, i. e. up a tone.



Regards

[MaestroX]

well spotted, I got them mixed up

[stevel]

Originally Posted by MaestroX

In simple terms the note name after the instrument name means what note the instrument plays so its sounds a concert C

So for clarinet in Bb, when it plays a Bb it sounds a C.

*Clarified by Reith* - actually the opposite. [Steve]



So here's a little chart:

Clarinet in Bb = up a tone
Clarinet in A = up a minor 3rd
Horns in F = Up a 5th
Trumpet in A = Up a minor 3rd

Hope your ok with my terminology

Le'ts be clear here too:

Clarinet in Bb: When you play a C it sounds like a Bb.
In order to tell the player to play a sound that results in what we know as a C, you therefore have to write it a tone up (since Bb is a tone lower than C) to compensate. So we would WRITE a D, to cause a Clarinettist to play a C.

It's helpful to keep this written versus sounding idea in mind:

Clarinet in Bb. Written C, sounds Bb. Sounding C means written D.
Clarinet in Eb: Written C sounds Eb (m3 up). Sounding C means written A (m3 below).
Clarinet in A: Written C, sounds A (below), Sounding C means written Eb (above).

Usually, the chart is like so:
Eb
D
[C]
Bb
A
F

So if it's "in Eb or D" the instrument usually sounds higher than the written pitch, and if it's "in Bb, A, or F", it usually sounds lower than written.

I say "usually" because instrument families like the Saxophones use Eb transpositions that go both up and down. Furthermore, some instruments transpose differently in different clefs - in Europe and America, or even in Germany and the rest of Europe, you can find instances where there's inconsistencies - for instance, some instruments that are normally now written in Treble clef used to be (or in different countries are) written in Bass clef. When done in this way, they usually transpose the opposite direction (but it's inconsistent).

There are also instruments that "transpose" at the octave - for instance, guitar music is written an octave higher than it sounds (or, guitar music sounds an octave lower than written).

You would be wise to check out a good orchestration book Ron (or Maestro could put up a chart for us :-) which will have a table of instruments and their transpositions (of course a lot of music texts will contain an appendix with such a chart).

Best,
Steve

[MaestroX]

(or Maestro could put up a chart for us :-) which will have a table of instruments and their transpositions (of course a lot of music texts will contain an appendix with such a chart).

This could be a good collaborative idea for the encyclopedia. There are very few good resources on the internet for transposing instruments and the technicalities Stevel mentions.

[stevel]

Originally Posted by MaestroX

This could be a good collaborative idea for the encyclopedia. There are very few good resources on the internet for transposing instruments and the technicalities Stevel mentions.

Here's a nice link:

http://www.orchestralibrary.com/reftables/rang.html

This is nice because it lists those clef distinctions and exceptions I mentioned.

I'd be hesitant to copy anything for fear of infringment, though with a couple of sources like this, one could easily make up a similar chart.

Best,
Steve

[stevel]

Originally Posted by stevel

Here's a nice link:

http://www.orchestralibrary.com/reftables/rang.html

This is nice because it lists those clef distinctions and exceptions I mentioned.

I'd be hesitant to copy anything for fear of infringment, though with a couple of sources like this, one could easily make up a similar chart.

Best,
Steve

Oh, and by the way, this is why I write all my chamber music for Flute, Oboe, Bassoon, Trombone, Tuba, Violin, and Cello. No transpositions, no Alto Clefs, just plain ol' "C Goodness" ;-)

Steve

[Ron Ofir]

Hmmm, interesting thread.

say "usually" because instrument families like the Saxophones use Eb transpositions that go both up and down.

I have a couple of sax friends, and I've never heard of it before. By go down and up, do you mean they go up an octave and down another interval (or vice verse)?

Oh, and by the way, this is why I write all my chamber music for Flute, Oboe, Bassoon, Trombone, Tuba, Violin, and Cello. No transpositions, no Alto Clefs, just plain ol' "C Goodness"

Do you mean that you let the players transpose themselves?

[quote]
You would be wise to check out a good orchestration book Ron
[/quote
Yay, that makes two Ron's!

[stevel]

I have a couple of sax friends, and I've never heard of it before. By go down and up, do you mean they go up an octave and down another interval (or vice verse)?


Do you mean that you let the players transpose themselves?

You're porbably thinking of the four "main" Saxes, which all sound below written pitch - Soprano, Alto, Tenor, and Bari (as do the other low end saxes of course). There's also a Sopranino in Eb that sounds above the written pitch (like the Eb Clarinet).

Steve