Few questions about Voice writing

[Will Kirk]

Hey All, not sure if anyone here is an expert on the voice, but I'll ask anyway and see what I come up with

Any help would be appreciated

1: What are the ranges for the 4 Main voices? (Tenor, Alto, Soprano, Bass)

2: What is the suggested maximum amount of time a specific section can hold a single note? (In tempo of 86 bps, and 120 bps)

3: What are the standard number of singers for each section in a full choir?

4: When writing for a Men's choir, how many singers for each section is the standard amount?

5: Are there any big no-nos in writing for voice?

Thanks in Advance

[reith]

Originally Posted by Will Kirk

Hey All, not sure if anyone here is an expert on the voice, but I'll ask anyway and see what I come up with

I'm no expert, Will, but...

Any help would be appreciated

I've done a couple of unaccompanied madrigals and some arrangements so I'll try.

1: What are the ranges for the 4 Main voices? (Tenor, Alto, Soprano, Bass)

This is probably a safe limit -
Sopranos: Middle C to G at top of stave. This is THE limit for boy trebles but females may be able to go higher. You'll find those who can go up to top C but don't count on it unless you know the choir/soloists.

Altos: F (3 ledgers below treble stave) to about D or E flat (top space of treble stave). Some will sing lower, some can reach the high F.

Tenor: C (octave below middle C) to G (treble stave where the clef curls round. Some can go higher - Caruso could get the higher B, not the C, and had arias transposed down.
Tenor is usually written an octave higher than concert pitch, using treble stave.

Bass: Low F to about D above middle C. Bass parts have been written down to the D but that's unusual. A slightly higher voice, the baritone can go from around G to E/F above middle C.

2: What is the suggested maximum amount of time a specific section can hold a single note? (In tempo of 86 bps, and 120 bps)

Soloists or chorus? A chorus with, say, ten voices per part could hold a note indefinitely as the chorusmaster will ensure they all breathe at different points. For soloists, you can try this for yourself with a stopwatch as it depends on pitch, volume and training. A pop singer could only hold a note for maybe 5 seconds but a Birgit Nilsson could pobably hold a loud one for a minute. Best... if you aren't a trained singer and limit the duration to what you can do yourself, you'll be safe. Remember to give good time to get a deep breath (without sounding like a gasp) before a long sustained note!

3: What are the standard number of singers for each section in a full choir?

There's no standard. Numbers vary greatly - the BBC Philharmonic choir is large at its largest (they're all volunteers would you believe!) but local church choirs can have maybe 2 or 3 voices per part.

4: When writing for a Men's choir, how many singers for each section is the standard amount?

Again, no standard.

5: Are there any big no-nos in writing for voice?

A couple of things I learned by advice and experience:
1) unless your singers are exceedingly well trained, don't get too chromatic or atonal...You might get away with some things accompanied but not otherwise.
2) Don't keep them at extremes of range for too long.
3) If you're going to divide your main 4 voices, go for sopranos and basses first, then alto and tenor if you have to (after making sure the chorus has enough to do the divisions!)
4) Avoid pitting them against a full orchestral tutti with brass etc. If you must, keep them high-ish in the range but not at the top. One of the loveliest works I've heard for chorus and orchestra is the (full ballet) Daphnis and Chloe.

Hope that's some help anyway. Might I also suggest that if you're going to write unaccompanied, the old rules of counterpoint were devised so that music could be sung by relatively untrained singers. By all means break them (like 5ths and octaves are fine if you must!) but be aware of them even in homophonic writing so far as intervals go. Diminished chords are ok, so are the augmented 6ths and so on. Be chromatic but have mercy on the abilities of your singers. One of my madrigals was a disaster because I went a bit too far!

[Will Kirk]

Originally Posted by reith

I'm no expert, Will, but...

I've done a couple of unaccompanied madrigals and some arrangements so I'll try.

This is probably a safe limit -
Sopranos: Middle C to G at top of stave. This is THE limit for boy trebles but females may be able to go higher. You'll find those who can go up to top C but don't count on it unless you know the choir/soloists.

Altos: F (3 ledgers below treble stave) to about D or E flat (top space of treble stave). Some will sing lower, some can reach the high F.

Tenor: C (octave below middle C) to G (treble stave where the clef curls round. Some can go higher - Caruso could get the higher B, not the C, and had arias transposed down.
Tenor is usually written an octave higher than concert pitch, using treble stave.

Bass: Low F to about D above middle C. Bass parts have been written down to the D but that's unusual. A slightly higher voice, the baritone can go from around G to E/F above middle C.
Soloists or chorus? A chorus with, say, ten voices per part could hold a note indefinitely as the chorusmaster will ensure they all breathe at different points. For soloists, you can try this for yourself with a stopwatch as it depends on pitch, volume and training. A pop singer could only hold a note for maybe 5 seconds but a Birgit Nilsson could pobably hold a loud one for a minute. Best... if you aren't a trained singer and limit the duration to what you can do yourself, you'll be safe. Remember to give good time to get a deep breath (without sounding like a gasp) before a long sustained note!

There's no standard. Numbers vary greatly - the BBC Philharmonic choir is large at its largest (they're all volunteers would you believe!) but local church choirs can have maybe 2 or 3 voices per part.

Again, no standard.

A couple of things I learned by advice and experience:
1) unless your singers are exceedingly well trained, don't get too chromatic or atonal...You might get away with some things accompanied but not otherwise.
2) Don't keep them at extremes of range for too long.
3) If you're going to divide your main 4 voices, go for sopranos and basses first, then alto and tenor if you have to (after making sure the chorus has enough to do the divisions!)
4) Avoid pitting them against a full orchestral tutti with brass etc. If you must, keep them high-ish in the range but not at the top. One of the loveliest works I've heard for chorus and orchestra is the (full ballet) Daphnis and Chloe.

Hope that's some help anyway. Might I also suggest that if you're going to write unaccompanied, the old rules of counterpoint were devised so that music could be sung by relatively untrained singers. By all means break them (like 5ths and octaves are fine if you must!) but be aware of them even in homophonic writing so far as intervals go. Diminished chords are ok, so are the augmented 6ths and so on. Be chromatic but have mercy on the abilities of your singers. One of my madrigals was a disaster because I went a bit too far!

wow, thanks for taking the time to reply reith

I appreciate your time

[reith]

Edited - decided to send a PM to Will Kirk