Historical Periods?

[stevel]

Since this will ultimately lead to a composition of some sort, I'm posting this here:

If you guys had to divide Western European music history into 12 and only 12 periods, what would they be?

You may include Jazz and Contemporary Pop if you don't want to stick only to classical.

For instance, my first two would be:
1. Monophony (Chant)
2. Early Polyphony (Organum, Isorhythmic Motets, Imitative Polyphony, etc.)

Help me fill in the rest.

Thanks,
Steve

[Thorolf]

Initially a general remark: Dance music, sacred/ritual music, songs and melodies permeates history, and cannot be linked as such to any historical period but all.

Otherwize, I think this covers everything:

1) Unknown, probably song, percussion and flute
2) Mediveal
3) Reinessance
4) Baroque
5) Classical
6) Romantical
7) Freetonal
8) Modernist
9) Jazz
10) Rock
11) Electronic
12) Globalist

Regards

[Stenir]

1) Ancient Music, attributed to anything pre 476

2) Medieval, 476 to @1400
2a) Early Medieval
2b) High Medieval
2c) Late Medieval

3) Renaissance, @1400 to @1600
3a) Early Renaissance
3b) Middle Renaissance
3c) Late Renaissance

4) Baroque @1600 to @1760
4a) Early Baroque
4b) Middle Baroque
4c) Late Baroque

5) Classical @1760 to @1820
5a) Early
5b) Middle
5c) Late

6) Romantic @1820 to @1920
6a) Early
6b) Late

7) Impressionism

8) Neoclassicism

9) Serialism

10) Minimalism (the basis for which would later become the minimalistic approach of contemporary classical)

11) Electronic (the basis for which would later become the electronic music of contemporary classical)

12) Contemporary Classical (this is a broad encompassing of about 15 different genres)



What are you asking for, if I might ask? Because you've given me a great idea: to write a "suite" of music that progresses through the history of music. Unless that's your idea, in which case I'll say it was yours and give you credit for thinking it up.

[Thorolf]

LOL!



As you see, there is no avoiding 1-6: All identical!

The controversy starts when we approach the 20th century: What to include, what to leave out…

Personally, my musical roots are all over the place but in the core of the western classical tradition, namely the german baroque/classical/early romantic body of works, i. e. the music that’s mostly about functional harmony, which doesn’t interrest me much. I feel that the classical world’s ability of self-description, beyond a myopic action/reaction/what’s new?-viewpiont is rather limited. Myself try to step up to a bird’s view and try to include everything: E. g. Messiaen, Stravinsky and other expressionists should definitely have a place on such a list, as well as other freetonal, yet not serialist or impressionist, composers.

Also, I think that the genuine compositional novelties of jazz and rock are too profound to be ignored, not the least because of it’s openness towards other genres, leading to all kinds of cross-overs, ultimately also out of the self-centered western world…

Regards

[Stenir]

Well, I'm just looking at it from the initial thought.

I'll go back and make the changes shortly. Once you get past #6, Romantic, you get to the point where genres are created by people who don't actually understand music and the musicians themselves tend to group music based on the technicalities of it.

Example...I mentioned minimalism, but that is more of a compositional thought process in my head, and I think it would be better to group history based on musical thought rather than final product classification.

If that makes any sense.

I'll post tonight what my 12 periods would look like in that format, once I figure it out.

[stevel]

Originally Posted by Stenir

1)


What are you asking for, if I might ask? Because you've given me a great idea: to write a "suite" of music that progresses through the history of music. Unless that's your idea, in which case I'll say it was yours and give you credit for thinking it up.

Well, I'm sure I'm not the first who has thought that up! So I say go ahead and use it!!!! I am using ot for something similar, but in the end, it will be less about the time periods (so rather than a "walk through history" it will be a "walk through X" - I won't tell you X yet :-).

I remember discussing this with a fellow grad student in grad school, and he had thought about it too, so I'm sure it's a common idea. Hell, if it inspires a piece, then I say go for it - after all, there's nothing new under the sun anyway.

But maybe you could just put a "Thanks to" me in the liner notes :-).

I'm not responding to the 12 yet, from you or anyone else, just to see what comes of this.

Best,
Steve

[reith]

I'd find this v difficult to answer because everything seems to blend into everything else with some exceptions from the 20th century e.g 12-tone, traditional jazz, ragtime and punk.

Maybe just my lack of knowledge.

[Peter Bolton]

I think you are looking at different musical styles rather than periods, eg Jazz is a style not a period. There were huge overlaps in dates, for instance the classical style began around 1720 in Italy. There was also a style best described as Rococo, mostly associated with France (eg F. Couperin & Rameau).

[Thorolf]

^ This topic is very delicate, as one can never say that any period of musical development has really ended…

There is a long line of composers that compose in e. g. a purely classical idiom, beginnig with Mozart and Haydn et al, and proceeding to this very day. Most of them are rather unkown, because people tend to be conservative when it comes to music, and after hearing the old masters, they stop looking for “that kind of music”, even if some composers never ceased to compose it…

So what one can really look for is where do new kinds of innovation emerge, and it’s true that from my list, freetonal, modernist, and jazz innovation emerged fairly simultaneously at the beginning of the 20th century, developing at different speeds (jazz developing slowest, but to the widest diversity of outcomes). The differences within jazz styles up to today makes the collective styles of baroque, classisism and early romantic periods (let alone “Gallant” and “Rococco” styles!) seem like peas in a pod in comparision…

If one wanted to go for strictly “period” music, the list is simple:

1) pre 1000 A. D
2) 1000-1099 A. D.
3) 1100-1199 A. D.
4) 1200-1299 A. D.
5) 1300-1399 A. D
6) 1400-1499 A. D.
7) 1500-1599 A. D
8) 1600-1699 A. D.
9) 1700-1799 A. D.
10) 1800-1899 A. D.
11) 1900-1999 A. D.
12) 2000-> A. D.

But I don’t think that this is what stevel is really after…



Regards

[stevel]

Originally Posted by Thorolf

If one wanted to go for strictly “period” music, the list is simple:

1) pre 1000 A. D
2) 1000-1099 A. D.
3) 1100-1199 A. D.
4) 1200-1299 A. D.
5) 1300-1399 A. D
6) 1400-1499 A. D.
7) 1500-1599 A. D
8) 1600-1699 A. D.
9) 1700-1799 A. D.
10) 1800-1899 A. D.
11) 1900-1999 A. D.
12) 2000-> A. D.

But I don’t think that this is what stevel is really after…



Regards

No, not what I was after, although someone else on another board mentioned it and I have to admit, it could work for what I'm doing.

Of course now I'd need to know what the epitome of 11th cent. music is, the epitome of 12th century music, etc.

Steve