Things to do with a sound library

[marcuslee]

I know this doesn't have a lot to do with original compositional techniques (more like electronic arranging), but here's my question ...

I just recently found a double-layer DVD sound library at a discount store (10,000 samples or so). Now, I am trying to figure out what to do with it. There are several things I have thought of, but if there are things that can be easily done, I would love a little help.

There are drum loops. I know how to split of a drum loop, rearrange, reverse it, etc... I think I know what to do with those.

There are also 5 - 10 second melody lines for just about every instrument: basses, synths, brass, strings, pads, etc.... I'm not really sure what I can do with these. I've thought of splitting up the notes and rearranging them, but when I've tried, it was a little jumpy. A lot of the rythums are too fast to splice. But, I don't have a lot of experience with this stuff, so maybe I am making it harder than it should be.

It's easy to send the melody through various filters, making it sound different. But, its still the same melody. Is there an easy way to transform it into a different (though similar) melody? I can change keys to the whole sample, but it's still the same melody. Help!!

So, what can I do with a sound library on DVD (or CD)? If (with your help) I can figure out how to use a lot of the samples, I would be happy to invest in other libaraies in the future. But, I can't see spendning a lot of money on something that I can't transform into something else.

That reminds me! Does anyone know of any good sample libraries at a reasonable price? (I've seen some for $500. I'm not in the music business, so I will never spend that much - for a program ... maybe ... so I was thinking in the range of $50 or less for a sound library)

Thanks in advance!
Mark

[stevel]

I just recently found a double-layer DVD sound library at a discount store

That might tell you something Marcus!!!

I've thought of splitting up the notes and rearranging them, but when I've tried, it was a little jumpy. A lot of the rythums are too fast to splice. But, I don't have a lot of experience with this stuff, so maybe I am making it harder than it should be.

No, sounds about right. Unless there's space between notes, it's a little harder than drum patterns (since drums have such strong transient attacks) but you should be able to do it.

So, what can I do with a sound library on DVD (or CD)? If (with your help) I can figure out how to use a lot of the samples, I would be happy to invest in other libaraies in the future. But, I can't see spendning a lot of money on something that I can't transform into something else.

You're trying to use these for something for which they weren't designed. They're designed to be loops as well. Unless you're using them as a loop (or filter/effect them so much as to be unrecognizeable as a series of melody notes) there's not much you can do with them. They're designed for "plug and play" composing.

That reminds me! Does anyone know of any good sample libraries at a reasonable price? (I've seen some for $500. I'm not in the music business, so I will never spend that much - for a program ... maybe ... so I was thinking in the range of $50 or less for a sound library)

You get what you pay for in this world. There's a reason the good ones are so expensive (Check out the Vienna Symphonic Cube). You could probably buy a used sampler and make your own for that price.

But what are you trying to do? How are you writing/composing?

Steve

[marcuslee]

Originally Posted by stevel

You get what you pay for in this world. There's a reason the good ones are so expensive (Check out the Vienna Symphonic Cube). You could probably buy a used sampler and make your own for that price.

But what are you trying to do? How are you writing/composing?

Steve

I listened to the demos for the Vienna Symphonic Cube, and before I saw the price I was thinking in the hundreds like $500, but when I saw $11,000, I knew what you meant by, "You could probably buy a used sampler and make your own for that price."

I'm trying to experiement and have some fun. I've written a few pieces (two posted on SoundClick - http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page...?bandID=643833)

But, I would like to do various things ... for as little money as possible right now. Maybe later I can dish some cash out (though, probably not $11,000 ... at least not on one thing).

Do you know of anything similar to Vienna Symphonic Cube ... say for under $500?

And, what sampler do you recommend and why? (Remember price is a big thing for me right now)

Thanks for the info, by the way!

Mark

[MaestroX]

For orchestral sample libaries there are two main players at the moment (other than Vienna Symphonic Cube).

You can get GPO (Garritan Personal Orchestra) fairly cheap and East/West Symphonic Orchestra. (comes in silver, gold and platinum editions)

Most would probably say that GPO is better for classical music whereas EW Symphonic Orchestra is better for film music. I would disagree here. In my opinion GPO is good if your willing to spend a lot of time configuring each midi track and GPO lacks good string samples.

My best advice is to listen to the demos and find which libary suits your needs better. They both work standalone so can be used for live performance (if you've got the CPU power ) and are both VSTs so the plug straight into your sample. I personally use Cubase SX.

[stevel]

I listened to the demos for the Vienna Symphonic Cube, and before I saw the price I was thinking in the hundreds like $500, but when I saw $11,000, I knew what you meant by, "You could probably buy a used sampler and make your own for that price."

I know, right! But it does go to show you the difference in quality between something that's 100 bucks versus that much - now granted, they've gone overboard and have every possible bow articulation and so on, which may go beyond practicality, so I think some good ones could be had for much less.

But, I would like to do various things ... for as little money as possible right now. Maybe later I can dish some cash out (though, probably not $11,000 ... at least not on one thing).

11,000 - I'd buy a car first! That's a lot of Strats and Marshalls! I could think of 11,000 things I'd buy before I bought that.

Do you know of anything similar to Vienna Symphonic Cube ... say for under $500?

And, what sampler do you recommend and why? (Remember price is a big thing for me right now)

Well, are you stuck on it being a virtual synth? Why don't you get a hardware sound module?

See: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/cate...ogprice&so=asc

You can get an Edirol SD-20 for 300 bucks. I'm sure the sound quality is not as good as the Fantom, which also is one of a very few hardware samplers (@ 1,300), but the sounds are probably useable.

The good thing about a hardware sound module is, if well kept, it will always work. I've got TX802, Proteus Orchestral, Ensoniq SQ-R, Korg M3R, and Korg O5R/W sound modules and a Roland XP10 at school, and a Roland D-5 and SC88 ProST at home. The LED on the SQ-R and XP10 is going, and the batteries are dead (so can't store user patches) on the SQ-R and M3r and Proteus, and the buttons on the D-5 have gone bad, but they all still work via MIDI! In fact, I've got three Roland S-330 samplers that probably still work fine, and I just founf the system disks for them yesterday - they're only 12-bit, but could be useable. And the bonus bow is all those synths have a "vintage vibe".

THe problem with virtual (software) synths is, you've got the continual upgrade issue to deal with as well as keeping up with system requirements. If you upgrade from XP to Vista or something, you might have to upgrade all of your virtual synths. SO far, the only thing to outdate on MIDI hardware has been serial ports, which are now USB ports. But MIDI ports are stying around for backwards compatability for a while, so we're good. Additionally, software synths are HUGE processor suckers - unless you've got the fastest computer they make today, you can forget about running too many virtual instruments effectively. Many people runn their sequencer on one computer, and their virtual instruments on a complete different system!

I've found that most virtual synths under 500 are not so great, and hardware modules have better sounds in that price range (then once you get above 1,000 bucks, it becomes more an issue of features and number of sounds rather than quality).

HTH
Steve

[stevel]

Originally Posted by MaestroX

For orchestral sample libaries there are two main players at the moment (other than Vienna Symphonic Cube).

You can get GPO (Garritan Personal Orchestra) fairly cheap and East/West Symphonic Orchestra. (comes in silver, gold and platinum editions)

Most would probably say that GPO is better for classical music whereas EW Symphonic Orchestra is better for film music. I would disagree here. In my opinion GPO is good if your willing to spend a lot of time configuring each midi track and GPO lacks good string samples.

My best advice is to listen to the demos and find which libary suits your needs better. They both work standalone so can be used for live performance (if you've got the CPU power ) and are both VSTs so the plug straight into your sample. I personally use Cubase SX.

What about Tascam's Giga Studio and Giga Sampler - I've not tried them because they aren't available for Mac - anyone use them or heard good/bad things about them. I think MOTU and M-Audio make some entry level softsynths too.

I've got to say, Mark, if you're reading, I much prefer synths than I do "samples" - it's funny because you can have the best sounding violin sample in the world, but when you drop it into a file, when it blends with the other instruments it doesn't blend! I knew people who used to complain that Piano sounds in synths always sounded "tinny" or "clanky", but they're EQ'd to blend will with typical piano guitar bass organ drums strings horns kind of pop styles - yes, it doesn't sound like a Bosendorfer but when's the last time you saw a pop artist on stage with one (Tori Amos excepted). Jazz can sound pretty good on an out-of-tune off brand upright piano!

So I tend to concentrate less on sample accuracy, than I do on "what can I do with this sound besides it being a Violin" - Samples concentrate so much on being exactly something, that they usually aren't as good at being other things as well. So you end up buying scads and scads of sample libraries where you can grab the oscilators in a synth and twist a knob and come up with a completely different sound.

So not bashing sample libraries, but, when looking for versatility, they're not my thing - when looking for accuracy, spend 11,000!

Steve

[marcuslee]

Originally Posted by MaestroX

For orchestral sample libaries there are two main players at the moment (other than Vienna Symphonic Cube).

You can get GPO (Garritan Personal Orchestra) fairly cheap and East/West Symphonic Orchestra. (comes in silver, gold and platinum editions)

GPO is in my price range. (Not at the moment, mind you) I'm still got to get a good program to use all these samples in. Right now I am considering Fruity Loops. Thoughts?

Mark

[marcuslee]

Originally Posted by stevel

I've got to say, Mark, if you're reading, I much prefer synths than I do "samples" - it's funny because you can have the best sounding violin sample in the world, but when you drop it into a file, when it blends with the other instruments it doesn't blend!

I have very little experience, but here goes my thoguhts: I can see what you are saying. But, if you are going to spend hundreds of dollars on an instrument library, I would hope you wouldn't mix those samples with cheaper(free) synths. Would you have the same problem with the expensive synths? So, I don't see where mixing would be a problem most of the time ... depending on the genre of music you are going for.

Now, if you are trying to mix a violin sample with a cello sample and things go wrong, then you are either bad samples or samples of different quality (once again from inexperience).

So I tend to concentrate less on sample accuracy, than I do on "what can I do with this sound besides it being a Violin" - Samples concentrate so much on being exactly something, that they usually aren't as good at being other things as well. So you end up buying scads and scads of sample libraries where you can grab the oscilators in a synth and twist a knob and come up with a completely different sound.

So not bashing sample libraries, but, when looking for versatility, they're not my thing - when looking for accuracy, spend 11,000!

Don't get me wrong. I love synths, too. I love Crystal, for instance. And, there are a few others that make really good sounds. I haven't spent money on any because I still have fun with the free ones.

I think I will spend money on samples first because when I want to create a nice violin concerto, synths just won't do the job, and free soundfonts are okay (I use them now) ... but they just don't do the job either. However, I will never be a big record producer or composer, so I don't see myself dishing out 11,000 Washingtons.

Thanks for your thoughts, though.

Mark

[stevel]

But, if you are going to spend hundreds of dollars on an instrument library, I would hope you wouldn't mix those samples with cheaper(free) synths.

Hehe. Well, you might. My class just did a project using virtual synths supplied with Cubase, and a hardware Yamaha Motif. While the Yamaha sounds mounds better, there were two things they used from the Virtual Synths: Sounds that weren't available on the Motif, and what we found worked really well were sounds where it didn't really make a difference - for example, one used Virtual bass and drums, and while they weren't pristine, it wasn't a big issue becuase you heard them as "the rhythm section" and it really worked as a unit, which worked well with the Yamaha's other instruments.

But I agree, I wouldn't typically mix my supe realistic solo violin patch with a cheesy soundcard backing strings patch for the rest of the orchestra (unless I had to).

Steve

[mducharme]

I have amassed a fairly decent collection of sample libraries so I thought I'd chime in..

The two most popular "starter" libraries are probably GPO and Kirk Hunter Emerald. I own both..

GPO is sortof the "dummies guide to orchestra sample libraries".. very cheap and easy to use.. getting really good results out of it is possible, but takes a LOT of tweaking/practice...

Kirk Hunter Emerald gives better results more easily IMO but requires a sampler like Tascam GVI or Native Instruments Kontakt2. It also requires a bit more computer knowledge to get going and use.

If you just know computer basics and are on a very tight budget, GPO is what I would recommend.. if you have a bit more to spend, and know a bit more about computers, I would recommend a sampler (GVI or Kontakt2) and Kirk Hunter Emerald.

Also most people starting out with sample libraries underestimate the value of a good convolution reverb.. can make bad samples sound good and good samples sound amazing. A cheap but good quality option in this area is Voxengo Pristine Space. Well worth it to spend the money on this early on as otherwise you don't really have a clear picture of where your sample libraries are lacking.

Mike