Bonemans Fugue

[Boneman]

Here is my subject , I hope four bars is okay!

[reith]

Well, that's nice....but where's the rest? I think you're meant to modulate somewhere at the end of the subject...maybe I'm wrong.

[Boneman]

Possibly but I will wait for my tutor R! It is all darkness for me, as I said I never was one for reading about things, just a doer and learnt by my mistakes!

[PeterG]

Hi Boneman,

Can you share a pdf or mp3? I can't open sib-files.

thanks,

Peter

[stevel]

Originally Posted by Boneman

Here is my subject , I hope four bars is okay!

Ok, Boneman, since we're learning, I'm going to be hyper critical, OK -

G F# G A Bb

G F# Bb A G

Ok, it's a little sectional. By that I mean, you got two bars, then two more bars. Since the second begins almost identically, then you've got something that sounds like a repeat. This is not impossible, but it sort of causes the Subject to "stall". Usually, your subjects tend to more "continuous", or if they're not, there's not such an obvious repeat in the second half (in fact, many subjects are difficult to divide in half or into smaller phrases).

Also, it sounds like the Bb is leading somewhere - which would probably be a C.

So basically, it sounds like you've got a 2 measure Subject instead.

It might be better if you had the "intro", then a continuation, like:

G F# G A Bb | C DC BbC Bb A G F#...

One other thing about your original above - the jump from F# to Bb is a diminished 4th - usually those types of interval are avoided melodically - again, not impossible, but usually if ever, in a different context than this (for instance, it's not uncommon in G minor for the bass to jump down from Bb to F# SO LONG AS IT GOES BACK TO G, in the chord progression i6 - V6 - i).

So as it sounds now, I would expect the following:

V1: G F# G A Bb | counter subject or free counterpoint
V2: (rest) | D C D Eb ???

You've set yourself up for a tough one here because if you use a real answer, you get:
D C# D En F - that's ok but you'll definitely be in D minor at that point.
Tonal answer is tougher:
D C D Eb F? the problem is, you really need to adjust the E and F, or neither. So:

D C D En F# (which leads nicely back to G though :-)
- or -
D C D Eb F - which is really going to force your countersubject or free counterpoint to start sounding like it's in Bb M.

You could invert your Answer:
D Eb D C Bb

which would actually be kind of cool - see the symmetry.

G F# G A Bb |
(rest) | D Eb D C Bb

Spiffy :-)

I'll make another post here, hang on.

Steve

[stevel]

Originally Posted by PeterG

Hi Boneman,

Can you share a pdf or mp3? I can't open sib-files.

thanks,

Peter

You can go to Sibelius' site and download their free Scorch plug-in and then play any .Sib file - which is where Sibelius has Finale beat hands-down (this from a Finale user :-).

Though Boneman - PDF is always nice if you can do that too.

By the way, it cem up really teensy in Scorch - does anyone know if I can Zoom or enlarge?

Steve

[stevel]

Originally Posted by Boneman

Here is my subject , I hope four bars is okay!

There are a couple of "rules" to writing good subjects.

First and foremost, you must consider the ending because when your Answer comes in, it will be a specific note, so you want to make sure your Subject ends in a logical place that allows that note.

Usually a Subject is made up of something "obvious" at it's beginning. The reason why is that later, it may come in with 3 or 4 other parts sounding, so it has to be recognizeable. Some common "tricks" that mkae Subjects more noticeable when they enter are:
Repeated notes
Entering on upbeats
Using note values less likely to be in accompanying voices (meaning usually long notes (whole, half) or quicker moving notes (16ths).

To make life easy, composers often stick to the "natural hexachord" when writing a Subject. In C major, that's C D E F G A. This way, when you write your Answer at the Dominant, the notes will use G A B C D E - note how not using scale degree 7 avoids the problem of dealing with "F or F#" in your Answer! In minor, the 6th scale degree presents a little more of a problem, but, avoiding the Leading Tone in your subject can simplify many matters.


You did good here Boneman because the half note and 2 1/4s that begin this will be obvious if you make the Subject enter at a time when the other voices are using 8th or 16th note activity.

By the way, the way this Subject "repeats" is not unlike the way Bach's C minor subject:

C Bn C G Ab | C Bn C D G

repeats, but this motive is aided by the fact that it's 16th note upbeats and in quicker values overall - yours Boneman is slow enough so that listeners hearing the 2nd two measures might mistake this for another entry (or confuse the first half with a false entry, which is another topic).

I would do one of three things at this point:

1. Make it a 2 measure subject.
2. Make the second half less "repeaty", and more "forward moving" (like increasing pace (smaller note values), etc.).
3. Try another Subject (never hurts - sometimes some Subjects are easier to deal with than others).

Best,
Steve

[stevel]

Originally Posted by Boneman

Here is my subject , I hope four bars is okay!

Boneman,

I'm going to attach some files (hopefully) for possible continuations of your Subject to illustrate what I meant in the other posts.

Disclaimer: I made it just a 2 measure Subject.

First staff is tonal answer, inverted. Stays in key.
Second is tonal answer. Seems to drift to Bbm (Eb would be the next chord implied probably).
Third is real answer. Moves to dm.

I tried to make the CP similar in each case just to keep it consistent - there are thousands of other (and far better) possibilities (I only spent a little time on it).

Hope they come out readable.

Steve

[Boneman]

Hi Stevel

Here is my second attempt after reading your posts.I have changed the subject and done a few other bits.

[stevel]

Originally Posted by Boneman

Hi Stevel

Here is my second attempt after reading your posts.I have changed the subject and done a few other bits.

Yay! Very Good Boneman.

A couple of comments:

For me personally (from a contemporary standpoint), this works great. There's only one thing I would say - if it were for wind players, I'd just give them an 8th rest where any of your existing ties to 8ths are (even though I know they could play through) - even in the Subject. This is kind of an "agitato" subject and those little "breaths" in there will only add to the "agitation". For something like Organ though, I'd leave it as is.

Now, not for me, but for Bach - if you're trying to emulate that specifically:
1. The augmented 2nd from Eb to F# is again a dissonant melodic interval. Composers of the past would have avoided such a combination. You usually hear "used lowered 7 and 6 in minor going down, and raised 6 and 7 going up". But here you're kind of stuck because you change direction on 6. Usually, the solution would be to make it "modal sounding" by having F natural both ways with an E natural (giving it a Dorian flair). Otherwise, you'd typically leave it F natural and Eb to stay "in mode" (in natural minor) though you might also see F# and En - F# even on the downward run. There's no rule for it except that composers of the past would generally not want an F and another F of a different type following so closely in this type of situation (again, if En though, more likely). They of course would generally avoid the Eb to F# combination altogether. What you have is fine, just not "classical".
2. This goes back to the using the natural hexachord I was talking about - using the Leading tone in your subject always sets you up for such problems. They're not insurmountable, just a pain :-). However, I can see most people's desire to use the minor 3rd and leading tone in close proximity to help reinforce the "minorishness" of the key.

One more "traditional" thing about the form - and this goes for classical style, but even for me personally (considering from a contemporary standpoint again) there's usually a little more time after the first S/A pair before the next S comes in. Often, like some of the examples I gave before, if your A leads you into the relative key, or, the key of the Dominant (which happens frequently) then a couple of measures (an eposide) is used to modulate back to the main key for the entry of the second Subject. For instance, in the one I gave that I said seems to want to go to Bb, the next chord had I kept going would have probably been Eb, or VI in Gminor. So what you'd probably get is a sequential episode that went: VI - iio - V - i.

This is true even if you don't need to modulate back to the home key - the delay before the third voice enters gives your audience a chance to digest the subject and answer, and get used to the setting they appear in. Furthermore, it's a sneaky way of tempting your listeners with - hey this is a two part fugue, nice. Then once they get used to 2, you sneak the third voice in. Then they wonder if it's 3 or 4 voices - it holds their interest longer. I wouldn't go longer than about four measures for another entry (depending on the tempo and such), but having your third entry (S2) right after the 2nd entry (A1) might be giving it away to soon. You gotta tease 'em a little :-).

Oh, and by the way, notice I used words like "generally" and "usually" a lot. There are certainly exceptions that might be much closer to what you've written (the Eb to F# though would be "wrong" in the past), but I'm comparing this to Bach et al style (yes, other composers besides Bach wrote fugues :-) when I make those kind of comments, and then the things you'd "typically" see!

I think you should keep going and see if you can get all four voices (assuming you're doing a 4 part) entered, and then get to a conclusive ending for your Beginning (Exposition). The whole Exposition need only about 16 measures or so, depending on the length of the Subject.

Then arrange it for Bone 4tet :-)

Best,
Steve