Monteverdi

[stevel]

Originally Posted by Ballaw de Quincewold

Is this a joke? I hope so.

Before you can classify him you need to define or draw a line between the two "styles."

Yes, it was obviously a joke.

But you also don't need a "line" between two styles (part of the later joke about a point). There is no demarcation between styles - only elements that are common to one or another. Saying that the Classical Period began in 1750 is a bit misleading. we do that as a convenience. What we need to do is see if the music Haydn was composing in 1749 was different than what JS Bach was composing in 1749 and discusse which composer, or which works share more similarities with the music before, or after that period. Monteverdi writing about Prima Prattica and Secunda Prattica is a very good example - even he knew he was composing some works in the first practice while the second practice was already firmly established. It would be like you composing line Mozart one day, and Babbitt the next. Would we call you "classical" or "contemporary"?

Steve

[Peter Bolton]

Originally Posted by stevel

I think the same is true of Beethoven. In my youth Monteverdi was Renaissance and Beethoven was Classical. Period. It seems like the spread of information these days have helped many people to see the subtleties of stylistic boundaries.

Steve

I agree with you entirely here. Both composers introduced some elements of what is to come but not really enough to place them firmly in a new style. It is good to understand the subtleties of styles rather, as many seem to be, to be fixated by dates. What we really need is more subtlety in our classification. I have commented before that the various arts show differing 'dates' of transition but I doubt if any of them can be pinpointed accurately like this.
Another composer who led the way was D. Scarlatti. Some 90% of his sonatas are definitely classical in style so it annoys me intensely when anyone calls him Baroque.

[Student]

I tend to delineate the beginning of the Baroque period in music as the invention of basso continuo and the use of homophony. Monteverdi's older works (first practice) were purely polyphonic, his later works (second practice) used basso continuo and homophony.

[Peter Bolton]

Originally Posted by Student

I tend to delineate the beginning of the Baroque period in music as the invention of basso continuo and the use of homophony. Monteverdi's older works (first practice) were purely polyphonic, his later works (second practice) used basso continuo and homophony.

This seems a fairly sound analysis and places Monteverdi in both camps, as it were. Neither wholly one nor the other. I don't know though whether or not he gave up composing madrigals.