If a record plays in the forest, and no one is there to hear it, is it still music?

[LethalBunny]

Whatever the truth is, one can be sure that rap is either Music or not music. However, can either term be defined?

[ttw]

Originally Posted by LethalBunny

Whatever the truth is, one can be sure that rap is either Music or not music. However, can either term be defined?

Not necessarily. Some things are like defining a shoreline or a river bank. The main parts are easy to define, but the boundaries are not clear.

[reith]

I've considered that disco and most current pop music is just an elaborated metronome, the latter being a bit easier on the ears.

[MidiWorld]

I consider the terms "rap music" and "hip-hop artist" oxymorons.
Music should be more than endless, repetitious loops from a beat box and some angry dude trying to be offensive.

[reith]

Personal view is that if rap and hip-hop were played in a forest, quite aside from the oft-negative energies that tend to pollute the psychic sphere, then I wouldn't be there to hear it, as indeed I'm not when it's pushed out on the airwaves and I turn the radio off.

[chckn8r]

Although I do agree with Reith that Rap and Hip Hop are generally negative and repetitive (especially with newer, immature artists), there are good and talented artists (Big Boi/Andre 3000/Outkast and Ugly Duckling) out there and some interesting things about the genre that can be useful.

I, personally, take the position that there is no "bad" music out there, just a lot of different opinions. With that, I keep an open mind about any music I hear and look for what I can use or apply in my own compositions - whether it be a chord progression, a beat or even the production/engineering used to achieve the sound.

Rap and Hip Hop grew out of an urban musique concrete if you will - use of clips of pre-recorded music / beats to create a new piece. Although I have no interest in spinning records, or using a set of turntables as an instrument, the skill involved in doing what some of these DJ's can do with records - beat matching, scratches, etc. - in real time and at the drop of a hat is quite cool.

There's a great resource at EMP if you want to get into some of the history behind hip-hop.

Cheers, D

[LethalBunny]

It all depends how you look at the rap

The rap audience generally are looking for action it seems - they don't really care for variation and complexity, when they're in their car playing the music full whack all they want is to feel the adrenaline from it, the excitement.

[Peter Bolton]

Whilst not being particularly fond of rap it sounds like music to me. It has rhythm and is articulated at a pitch other than that used in normal conversation. Well, maybe swome poets are guilty of that as well but thoswe who use hushed tones and pregnant pauses are more like poseurs in my view. Once there was singspiel of course.
Unfortunately my cat cannot express his musical likes and dislikes but I do bear in mind that the lowest two octaves of the piano are outside his range of hearing so heavy bass is wasted on him. Hang on a minute, he's agitating for his supper.

[stevel]

Originally Posted by ttw

Not necessarily. Some things are like defining a shoreline or a river bank. The main parts are easy to define, but the boundaries are not clear.

It's more like defining Creek, Stream, and River. Where does one end and the other begin?

But, it's also like defining River versus Lake (and Pond). Rivers definitely have some general characteristics that make them unique from the general characteristics of Lakes.

Is Toch's "Geographical Fugue" Poetry, or Music? Because of the rhythmic element, I think most people would put it in the category of music, even though there's no specific pitch.

So there are some general characteristics we can define, but when a work becomes too close to (or contains too many of) the charateristics of something else, that's when the boundaries present problems (like a lake the has a lot of water flowing in one direction, or a river that flows "nowhere").

I think Rap Music contains enough characteristics we consider to be musical to class it as music. Whether one cares for this music is a different issue.

Best,
Steve

[stevel]

Originally Posted by MidiWorld

I consider the terms "rap music" and "hip-hop artist" oxymorons.
Music should be more than endless, repetitious loops from a beat box and some angry dude trying to be offensive.

You probably don't like Beethoven then. 7th symphony, movement II is very repetitive. And while he might not have been trying to be offensive, I get the feeling he pretty much didn't give a damn if he was! :-)

Steve