If a record plays in the forest, and no one is there to hear it, is it still music?

[reith]

Originally Posted by stevel

I think Rap Music contains enough characteristics we consider to be musical to class it as music. Whether one cares for this music is a different issue.
Steve

Ok, if you like, but this seems to open a bigger question about continua - where does something like noise turn into speech (or music), where does speech become music? Where does music become a sort of metamusic (in the sense of what Schoenberg was aiming at).

I'd place rap closer to speech than music. It's usually poetic in that it usually rhymes (sort of) and the metre is underpinned by a drum. It could be a metronome but these days we've habituated way beyond the beat of poetic metre and need drums to enforce a beat. That doesn't make it more music than someone reading a poem using the emphasis of the words in feet and metre.

But of course, poetry is close to music.

[brightparis]

Originally Posted by stevel

Wll certainly, that's true in a broad sense.

Music definitely has a time element, and a sound element.

But Poetry and Verbal Communication do to.

But poetry and verbal communication usually communicate on a more specific level. A good example is Morse Code. It is sound, in time, and it can even have a rhythmic element to it. But we don't typically consider it music because... well, why?

I believe it's because we know it's intent is to be a form of communication.

So I feel that "intent" must somehow be the differentiating factor when no others exist.

But again, we don't want to get into the trap of calling Rap "not-music" either. Because when we look at the definitions of what music contains, suddenly it meets all the criteria.

Tricky situation.

Steve

I totally agreed with u. U explaination is really good.