C7+9 Chord

[Jake Hodges]

Can somebody please explain this chord to me? (C7+9)

[ttw]

In a "classical" setting, any such chord is just an extension of the C7 chord. The usual resolution is for the ninth to descend by step as the whole chord resolves to an F chord. The ninth may be either major or minor; a minor ninth usually resolves to an F minor chord and a major ninth to an Fmajor.

The Bb plus D must move down to A and C respectively. (As would a Bb plus Db.)

[Jake Hodges]

Originally Posted by ttw

In a "classical" setting, any such chord is just an extension of the C7 chord. The usual resolution is for the ninth to descend by step as the whole chord resolves to an F chord. The ninth may be either major or minor; a minor ninth usually resolves to an F minor chord and a major ninth to an Fmajor.

The Bb plus D must move down to A and C respectively. (As would a Bb plus Db.)

Thank you very much.

[chckn8r]

Originally Posted by ttw

The ninth may be either major or minor; a minor ninth usually resolves to an F minor chord and a major ninth to an Fmajor.

Although - the minor ninth has a dissonant and unpleasant sound (especially when in an orchestral setting)- usually is avoided unless you're looking for that type of "clash".

Typically, when you see the chord written like that, you'll play a major ninth - gives a nice "smooth" sound to the chord. If it's a minor ninth, it would be written that way (C7 add min9).

D

[MaestroX]

I can extend on this

In the common practice period it was often used with the 5th omitted.

So the order of notes from bottom to top: C, E, Bb, D is most commonly used.

[Thorolf]

I actually think that the chord in question is not plain C9, but C #9 chord, always written as C7#9 to avoid confusion with C# 9. Often in jazz, the # is replaced with a + sign, especially in #5 chords. The convention for adding single notes is not to use the sign "+", but to use the word "add", as in Cadd9, which implicates that no 7 should be voiced.

This chord can sound rather smooth, if voiced properly.



The smoothest voicing for this one is to drop the g altogether, and let it consist of c e bb and eb'. For extended voicings, just octave the Bb's and Eb's upwards, and the c doubling downwards.

This interresting “top”, with e, bb and eb', is easily translated to a 13 chord by exchanging the bass tone only, to F#, getting F# 13 voicing as F#, e, bb and eb'.

By adding another tone, ab, you get the e, ab, bb, eb' top that yields C 7#9b13 with c bass, and F# 9/13 with F# in the bass, saturating the chord further away from a feeling of dissonance.



Regards

[chckn8r]

Originally Posted by Thorolf

I actually think that the chord in question is not plain C9, but C #9 chord, always written as C7#9 to avoid confusion with C# 9. Often in jazz, the # is replaced with a + sign, especially in #5 chords.

Interesting - hadn't thought of it that way. I just assumed the + = "add" as I'm used to a sharp being denoted as a "#" and double sharp as "x".

Originally Posted by Thorolf

The convention for adding single notes is not to use the sign "+", but to use the word "add", as in Cadd9, which implicates that no 7 should be voiced.

Yeah - but I think we've seen so many different "accepted" conventions come across this board that it'd be hard to say what the "definitive" one would be huh?

[Thorolf]

True true! But for jazz—if there were a “standard” work on this, it should be “The Real Book” which utilizes the notation desctibed above…

Regards

[stevel]

Yeah - but I think we've seen so many different "accepted" conventions come across this board that it'd be hard to say what the "definitive" one would be huh

Well, there are definitive ones. But many people are unwilling to learn them and now, apparently unwilling to teach them. Wah, wah, wah, mr. teacher man, this figured bass is toooooo hard, wah, wah, wah. Can we just call first inversion "b"?

C7#9.

That is:

C E G Bb D# (often written as Eb).
Often it's voiced without the 5th.

Because "+" means augmented to most people, it is not used for "add". The word "add" is used. It is as Thorolfe says, used for "sharp" sometimes (though not as commonly as #) but that use is discouraged because "-" means minor (not "omit" which the word "omit" or "no" should be used for unless the context is clear) and because of other confusing practices.

For goodness' sake, pick up some respected theory books people!

:-)

Steve

[stevel]

Interesting - hadn't thought of it that way. I just assumed the + = "add" as I'm used to a sharp being denoted as a "#" and double sharp as "x".

I'm not picking on you chckn8r (honest) but your posts always have the quote I'm looking for!

You're used to seeing "#" and "x" in written notation. In Jazz chordal notation "#" doesn't mean "sharp", it means "raise".

Am Ab7#9 will have Ab C Eb Gb B-natural - so a natural sign would be needed in a key with Bb if you were writing this out.

Many times "#" and "b" are used generically to mean "raise" or "lower". You use whatever accidental it takes to make that happen.

Best,
Steve