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#1
01-06-2009, 02:08 PM
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| Four Part Writing Hi, I'm on the verge of getting into part writing/voice leading. I've been doing a lot of reading on the subject, but something I havent been able to find a direct answer for (even on other forums) is the layout of the chord tones. By this I mean R-3-R-5 (B-T-A-S) and the other such combinations. I've seen others like RR3R, RR35, R3RR, R533 and many more connection to others of all different types. Is there a set theory on this? Or can I distribute the tones however I please? Is it part and parcel of developing ones own style? I'm sorry for dragging you all down to my level with such a simple problem, but I really havent been able to find anyone, to date, who could answer this question. Any help will be gratefully received, thanks for your time. Best regards TheAristocrat  |
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#2
07-06-2009, 09:14 PM
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| Re: Four Part Writing 
Triads are COMPLETE (that is, they have one each of a Root, 3rd, and 5th) In ROOT POSITION triads, you double the Root, have one third, and one 5th (RR35). of course the Bass will have the Root, but the other three chord members (R35) can be distributed any way among the upper three voices. In FIRST INVERSION triads, the 3rd will of course be in the Bass, and any note can be doubled - RR35, R335, or R355. In SECOND INVERSION triads, the Bass is always doubled (which is the 5th), so R355. The only exceptions to this are that in progressions from V-VI, the 3rd of the VI chord is often doubled. Additionally, the Leading Tone is generally NEVER doubled - so a V chord in first inversion can not have its bass doubled, not can a viio in first inversion (they rarely appear in root positions). In SEVENTH CHORDS, inverted forms are typically COMPLETE - one of each member, R357. In root position 7th chords, the 5th may be omitted (RR37) or far less commonly, the 3rd (RR57). There are far more intricacies than this, but this is the basic gist. If you're talking non-classical style though, all bets are off. There are also "rules" on how widely to space voicings (between SAT  in addition to the "doubling" rules I mention above.Likewise, there are "voice-leading" concerns about moving one chord to the next. There are some pretty well-set rules moving root position to root position chords, and some less "strict" ones for moving between Root position and others, so if you find you want more info, let me know. You could post some examples and I could tell you what's "wrong" with them (if anything) from a classical standpoint. Steve |
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#3
24-10-2009, 06:16 PM
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 Re: Four Part Writing Hi, I apologize for such a late response, I've been without access to a computer for what seems like an age. If you are still willing to have a look at a few examples, I have four. I've gone over the rules a lot, and I think I know them well, it's just a matter of putting them into practice. I've started off with the V-I progression in C major. My approach is to go over as many different ways as possible for every progression and analyze them for errors and correct them. The four below is what I have started with. 1.Harmonic Progression V-I S| G4 - G4 [PU] A| D4 / E4 [M2] T| B3 / C4 [m2] B| G2 / C3 [P4] - Spacing: Close Position/Close Position - S-A, A-T: Both within an octave of each other - Motion: S/A = Oblique Motion, T/B = Similar Motion - Parallel P5s/P8s/PUs: None - Hidden Octaves/Fifths: Octave, T/B - Voice Crossing: None - Voice Overlap: None  ---------------------------------------------------------------- 2.Harmonic Progression V-I S| D5 / E5 [M2] A| G4 - G4 [PU] T| B3 / C4 [m2] B| G3 \ C3 [P5] - Spacing: Open Position/Open Position - S/A, A/T: All within an octave of each other - Motion: S/A = Oblique Motion, T/B = Contrary Motion - Parallel P5s/P8s/PUs: None - Hidden Octaves/Fifths: None - Voice Crossing: None - Voice Overlap: None  ---------------------------------------------------------------- 3.Harmonic Progression V-I S| D5 \ C5 [M2] A| G4 - G4 [PU] T| C4 / C4 [m2] B| C3 \ C3 [P5] - Spacing: Open Position/Open Position - S/A, A/T: All within an octave of each other - Motion: S/A = Oblique Motion, T/B = Contrary Motion - Parallel P5s/P8s/PUs: None - Hidden Octaves/Fifths: Octave, S/B - Voice Crossing: None - Voice Overlap: None  ---------------------------------------------------------------- 4.Harmonic Progression V-I S| G5 - G5 [PU] A| B4 / C5 [m2] T| D4 / E4 [M2] B| G2 / C3 [P4] - Spacing: Open Position/Open Position - S/A, A/T: All within an octave of each other - Motion: S/A = Oblique Motion, T/B = Similar Motion - Parallel P5s/P8s/PUs: None - Hidden Octaves/Fifths: Octave, A/B - Voice Crossing: None - Voice Overlap: None  ---------------------------------------------------------------- Am I on the right track? Must I continue with the same procedure? Thanks for your time, any help will be soaked up  Best regards Marius Last edited by TheAristocrat; 24-10-2009 at 06:17 PM. Reason: Corrected error |
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#4
24-10-2009, 07:20 PM
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| Re: Four Part Writing
For chords whose roots are a 4th/5th apart, and both in root position: Keep the Common Tone (G) The remaining two upper parts move by STEP to the next nearest chord tone IN THE SAME DIRECTION. (note all of these rules for root position writing with chords whose roots are a 4th/5th apart assume the bass part will move a 4th/5th from one root to the next, thus the specifics of the rules have to do with the upper three parts). It so happens that if your first chord is voiced/doubled/spaced correctly, it guarantees that the 2nd chord will be correct too. A+ :-) ----------------------------------------------------------------
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This results in the final chord being mis-doubled - no E! F! ----------------------------------------------------------------
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But, there are two other ways to move these chords. So let's call this rule above "4A" for the first type (A) of chords whose roots move by 4th (4). Note - it is assumed if you can go up from G to C (a 4th) you can go down from G to C (a 5th) so the rules for root movement of a 5th are the same as that for a 4th. 4A: Keep the common tone. Remaining 2 parts move, BY STEP, IN THE SAME DIRECTION, to the next nearest chord tone. The others, with examples: 4B: All three upper parts move in the SAME direction, to the next nearest chord tone, with no leaps larger than a 3rd in any part: D - C B - G G - E G - C This is EXTREMELY common at the end of pieces, especially when the melody goes 2-1 (D-C above). This would be WRONG: D - E B - C G - C G - C There is a leap larger than a 3rd. That in itself is not bad but by not following the rule, you end up with parallel or parallel by contrary motion octaves in the lowest two parts (in this voicing) and you end up with an incomplete chord (RRR3 instead of RR35). If we just kept the G as a common tone, you'd end up with rule 4A. Now, there IS an EXCEPTION to this rule, so let's call it: 4Bx: B - C G - E D - C G - C The exception is, "when using rule 4B in a V-I progression, the Leading Tone MUST go up if it is in the Soprano voice, and MAY go up if it's in one of the other parts. Doing so results in a "tripled root" (RRR3)". This is found almost exclusively on final cadences (final one of the piece, a phrase, or a section, etc.) and almost always contains the tonic note in the soprano (so either 2-1 or 7-8 is in the upper voice). The tripled root is not typically found on any chord other than I, and then only at stronger final cadences, so other 4th/5th progressions (I-IV, ii-V, etc.) don't use this exception, only the basic rule (4B ). You almost had this in your incorrect example (#3) except your G would have needed to go down to E rather than stay where it is. And the final Rule: 4C: The 3rd of the first chord moves to the 3rd of the second chord. Keep the common tone. The remaining voice moves BY STEP to the nearest chord tone THAT COMPLETES THE CHORD (i.e. RR35) D - C G - G B - E (up) G - C Note that the D could go UP to an E - that would follow the "by step" but not the "complete the chord" part because it makes R335 rather than RR35). Now, this rule can't always be used. A couple of things to note: Using this rule makes the upper parts of the first chord move from open position to close position in the second chord. As a result, you must have enough space for this to work, and you must be careful about the 3rd to 3rd voice. In the example above, the B goes UP to E - a 4th. If you move it down, it puts the Tenor too far from the Alto. What this means is, the voice that's moving from the 3rd of the first chord to the 3rd of the second chord must be in the SOPRANO or TENOR. It won't work if it's in the Alto. It also moves a 4th, not 5th. The part that is the 3rd of the first chord will typically move in parallel with the Bass to produce Parallel 10ths (or 3rds if in the Tenor possibly, or compounds of that). It doesn't HAVE to (Bass could move contrary), but it often does. In general, with a V-I cadence, if the LT is in the Soprano, it will typically use one of the other rules (4A, 4B or 4Bx) and let the LT rise to the Tonic rather than jump to the mediant (E over the C chord) so most often, you find this with the jumping part in the Tenor. With other progressions, or non-cadential V-I progressions, this is not a concern. In minor, this means that the LT (B natural in C minor) will leap a DIMINISHED 4th to the Eb. While this is typically a no-no, some texts say it's OK. I however haven't found many actual examples of this happening in real musical examples. I've been meaning to pay attention to it as I've played through some Bach chorales to make note if it happen, but I haven't noticed an yet (though I haven't really been trying to take note - now I will). In minor, on V-i, I would simply use 4A, 4B, or 4Bx (on a cadence). Note again that 4A and 4B will ALWAYS work on all progressions (4th progressions in root position of course), cadential or not. 4Bx should only be used at a cadence, and MUST be used (at a cadence) if the Soprano has 7-8 and you want to use "4B" instead of 4A - in other words, you use 4B, but modify it (making it 4Bx) so the LT goes up. 4C will work everywhere as well, BUT, the chord must be voiced so that its 3rd is in the soprano or tenor, and in a position that allows that 3rd to jump a 4th away to put the next chord in the opposite position - close to open or open to close). If you're writing free progressions, it's easy. If you're harmonizing an existing melody it's a little tougher because in some instances only one of the three rules will work, and you have to use trial and error to figure it out. I want to mention something else about 4B: D - C G - E B - G (or up to C to make rule 4Bx - tripled root) G - C If you "fill in" the G to E motion with an F, or replace the G with an F, you get the super common V7-I move, and final cadence (especially with the tripled root): D - C F - E B - G (or up to C for 4Bx) G - C Finally, a word about Hidden Octaves and Fifths: These progressions WILL produce direct intervals. It is obvious though that composers use these progressions all the time, at will. The ONLY time direct intervals seem to be a concern to many composers (not all of them cared in many contexts) is when they are in the OUTER voices, and the SOPRANO has a skip. Thus: B - C G - G D - E G - C (up) produces direct octaves between the outer voices, BUT the soprano moves by step, so they didn't care. The simple solution, where possible, is to move the bass DOWN to C. No more direct interval. But as I said, while the contrary motion is generally preferable, actual music shows composers didn't really go out of their way to avoid what we see above. however: B - G (down) G - E D - C G - C (down) This is rule 4B. But notice here that the Direct 5th (C/G) occurs in the OUTER parts, and the soprano SKIPS. This is bad. Again, the solution is just to make the Bass go UP to C. Problem Solved. It could of course be revoiced so that the B to G is not in the Soprano (which would be better anyway because we'd usually want to hear the B go to C, and that would make it 4Bx, which we might not want if this is not a cadence). It could also just use rule 4C (which is an option here). However the latter two options obviously change the melody line. The odds of you coming across the Direct 5th problem like this is pretty slim. Objectionable Direct Octaves are not possible if you follow the rules outlined above. Looking through music, this is generally the ONLY ways in which chords (triads) whose roots are a 4th/5th apart move, with rare exceptions. Those exceptions are usually caused by something else (such as a prior chord that has to be voiced out of the ordinary) and then the basic rules of counterpoint apply. HTH, and thanks by the way for the nice example images - made it really easy to discuss! Steve |
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#5
30-11-2009, 04:36 PM
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 Re: Four Part Writing WOW! Thanks for the posts, it's been a great insight. Loved the illustrations. I still dont know a few things, could one of you help me out? Are hidden octaves OK if one is on an outer voice or if both are inside voices? So it's only "bad" if both outer voices at once contain an hidden octave or fifth? Apart from that I've got everything else, but for one thing. I'm a guitarist and I don't get how do apply this stuff to guitar. I've asked lots but nobody answers me, so I wanted to find people who actually know this stuff properly as guitarists seem to be clueless about anything that isn't scale or mode related. So how do you apply these part writing principles to guitar? Range? Spacing? I'm sorry if this is very stupid, but I've never seen anything like this anywhere, I've even tried looking for violin info to see if it could be found in relation to that, but again no luck. I hope I made myself clear. Thanks. |
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#6
02-12-2009, 07:45 PM
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| Re: Four Part Writing
And on top of that, it's only "bad" if the soprano leaps. So, for example, here's a commonly found Direct 8ve: B-C G-G D-E G-C (up) Direct 8ves are formed between the Bass and Soprano, but because the Soprano moves by step, it's OK. On a side note though, it's considered better to simply move the bass down instead of up if possible. The opposite would be bad: G-C (up) D-E G-G B-C Again, the Direct 8ves are formed between the Bass and Soprano, but the Soprano leaps. This is considered "objectionable". If possible, the upper note could go down a 5th, but there are other problems that presents (and you don't jump down a 7th from B DOWN to C in the bass to solve it). In some types of textures, composers are less concerned about them, so the "objectionable" ones can be found more readily than say, parallel perfect 5ths. But on the whole, they're still pretty well avoided unless there's a musical reason to include them.
When you start using a chordal instrument like guitar, sometimes practicality outweighs four part writing procedures. Even in piano music, these "rules" are thrown out the window because you don't often play "chorale-like" pieces (though of course there are many written for keyboard instruments). But let's say that, on guitar, some of this is already done for you. If you play a C chord to an F chord like this: 0---1-- 1---1-- 0---2-- ----3-- 3------ ------- You just played proper 4 part voicings. But, if you put that E on the 4th string 2nd fret in the C chord, then you've got a 5 part chord moving to a 4 part chord. All bets are off. One of them is going to be parallel 8ves. But traditionally, in textures where the number of voices are constantly changing (Piano, Guitar, Organ, etc. literature, and even instrumental ensembles) "allowances" are made since the number of voices may not be consistent, and doublings may be desired, etc. etc. Also, remember that this music is "ancient" - It's over 200 years old. These "rules" are really our observations about what a particular group of composers did in a particular style of music. If you want to play The Kinks on the guitar, you're going to have all parallel chords - because that's part of that style. But the reason we still hold these "rules" dear is that they are still useful in contemporary music, so it's good to know how to use them. So for guitar, to do "authentic" 4-part work, it's best to play fingerstyle in the classical manner because the finger positioning makes it impractical to get to all the notes you need "strumming chords". But, you can at least take solace in the fact that if you are playing a bunch of chords in the same general area (like at the 5th fret) then the voicings will be "mostly correct" with some extra notes here and there, but nothing that's "wrong". HTH, Steve |
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#7
28-01-2010, 11:22 AM
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| Re: Four Part Writing I find that last part a little discouraging. So these rules aren't useful then at all? After taking some time out I started thinking about how to approach this whole part writing conundrum that I'm stuck in. And then it hit me, a V-I progression is a V-I progression regardless of how you voice it, granted that different voicings etc. will accentuate different qualities of the progression. That trail of thought made me feel a bit better, because then I can see that the part writing rules I am learning and practicing are stylistic, and as we all know, there are no rules for style. So in short, it is more practical to think of voice leading as a whole as a set of rules for a particular style of music. So, I guess that's where the next step would be to study the musicians that I like. But that's going a bit ahead of where I am. This leaves me with only one issue, taking these part writing/voice leading rules which are presented in four part format and moving onto music which isn't. I know for a fact that the musicians that I like most do not abandon voice leading, but their music definitely isn't four part style at all. So, I really hope I've got my head around this. It's just that everytime I'm told that what I'm study isn't required, it leaves me wondering what exactly am I supposed to do that is, if that makes any sense  . |
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