Me, Beethoven and Fugues

[Bassoonery]

Hi everyone this is in danger of sounding bloggish but I've just sat through my entire DVD of Beethoven's piano concs no.s 1 and 3 plus an extra sonata and I'm on a big musical high atm. I'm sure you understand.

Basically I just wanted to let you know that however much someone can understand the mechanics of music it still remains incredibly beautiful. Bvn's appoggiaturas are just SO exciting and with my newly acquired bust of him sitting on the mantlepiece :grin: he's been inspiring me all day. So far I've ended up with a theme that would make a perfect little German Lied and another one that would make a decent fugue theme. If only I knew how to write a fugue well! Any advice would be great, although I understand the overall picture of how a fugue works. My one is unusual in that the melody starts on the flattened leading note in D minor (C). I'm hoping that's not going to be a problem...

Anyway I've never composed this way round before (finding a theme and matching it with an appropriate form) so I'm feeling out of my depth.

Beethoven rocks!

[reith]

Beethoven was a true revolutionary!

Fugues? Well it would need a lot of typing to explain in detail (and get it wrong, no doubt!) and other members might be more in touch with the great fugue writers than me. Beethoven wrote some brilliant ones - his quartets are worth looking at - Op133 and Op131. But Bach had the biggest fugue machine. He wrote hundreds of them, all perfect, except he didn't like his fugue in the Toccata and Fugue in D minor, so I believe.

Basically, decide how many "voices" you want (independent contrapuntal parts) - 2 is a good number to start.
Then you need a tune (called the subject).
As this tune finishes, it modulates to a different key (classically, the dominant).
It then continues with a counter-subject, another tune that harmonises with the original tune, meanwhile the subject re-enters at the dominant.
You don't start on another entry of the subject until the latest one has finished.

You can continue in this way (though it doesn't have to modulate to the dominant again and you don't need a counter-counter-subject!) or you can do what you want now - return to the tonic and have some development over (or using) the subject again.

The whole run of exposing the subjects through all voices is called exposition.
Then you can do some development around the subject/counter-subject.

There's more to fugues though, like stretto, usually near the end. Here, you deliberately overlap entries of the subject to increase drama.

If you're writing in a more modern vein then you don't have to modulate to the dominant and that but it's a worthwhile exercise to do a couple formally.

Other members might know of better examples to study but I'm thinking of the Fugue of the first prelude/fugue in C in the Well-tempered series.

Good luck,
Reith.

[Boneman]

I really wish that you would all speak english here! No formal training means that all I understand is "Left, Right, Bitter, Lager etc"

[Bassoonery]

Thanks for that. My only real resource is the complete Handel suites and a few Bach inventions - are they much different to fugues?

And yes I'm planning to attempt a more formal fugue to start with. I like to know the "rules"!

[Thorolf]

Inventions and fugues are the same when Bach writes them, except for the tonality of the second subject entry: In an invention it is the same key, but in a fugue, it’s tonic->dominant.

The first entry (tonic) is called dux, and the second entry (dominant) is called comes. Typically, then they alternate, till all voices have been presented: In e. g. a three-part fugue, the main subject is presented three times in the exposition, dux, comes, dux. Worth noting that when presenting a dux after a comes, a small something is often inserted to modulate back to the tonic before a new dux is presented.

Then some interlude ensues, and you get a new string of subject presentations in other keys, interlude again, etc. till the end.

I would recommend studying the art of writing 2-part inventions first, before embarking on a fugue.



Regards

[Boneman]

Funny cos that sounds like trying carlsberg before stella! Thanks TH I think I get the idea!

[Bassoonery]

Thanks Thorolf that's very helpful. My draft (Two part invention, thanks for the advice!) in process doesn't look like it's going to be as strict as I would have liked but I'm liking the overall sound and that's what matters.

However I've used false relations galore - is that a problem? Bach wouldn't have used them in his chorales but inventions and fugues are different so I'm not sure.

[Thorolf]

Originally Posted by Bassoonery

However I've used false relations galore - is that a problem? Bach wouldn't have used them in his chorales but inventions and fugues are different so I'm not sure.

I never had a problem with false relations. If you like the sound of it, you are the judge.

It’s a common mistake to mistake composing for rehearsing. If you wanted to rehearse writing like Bach, you have already spotted mistakes, and should go back to the drawing board.

But if you just want to compose music, do as your ears tell you: If removing the false relations lessens the music, it’s probably a part of your inner ear, and your inner ear is what should matter…



Regards

[Bassoonery]

Thanks so much. I've uploaded my draft to the educational sketches section. Hack it to pieces if you will!

Oh by the way I've kept the false relations. Getting rid of them would destroy the original idea for the piece which would have been sad.

[MaestroX]

I've wrote a brief thread on how to write a Fugue, I thought it might be of interest to you.

Its here: http://www.music-web.org/forum/showthread.php?p=4936