Different Types of Jazz

[Shiva]

Whats the buissness of bebop and jungle. Whats the difference?

Please excuse my stupidity if this is a stupid question

[stevel]

Shiva,

"Jungle" Jazz is not a term I've actually heard of before. A little quick research shows there are movies and recordings entitled Jungle Jazz. I think "jungle" was originally a derogatory term used by whites for music made by blacks - as in "they play jungle music" (in other words, Jazz) although in my limited experience, terms that are at first derogatory get picked up both by the groups they're aimed at - as a way to poke fun at the people who are so concerned with labelling everything. I've hears jungle used to refer to otherr music (Jungle Boogie), used in titles in this poking fun way, and even as sound sets to appeal to people working in hip-hop, etc.

A quick look at one of the Jungle Jazz albums shows that in that instance they're talking about some of the Spanish/Latin (South American/Brazilian and Carribean) influenced forms - Merengues (and Bossa Nova and Tango, etc.) as well as any South American (or eventually African) influenced works might have been called that. In the PC era we live in now, I think more specific terms like "Latin Jazz" or "Afro-Cuban Jazz" are more often used.

Latin Jazz is a kind of 1930s 40s form which is basically Big Band Jazz/Swing with a lot of Latin influences, including lots of percussion (shakers, guiro, maracas, castanets - think Ricky Ricardo's band form I Love Lucy) and rhythmic patterns (there are a lot of "set" rhythmic patterns like Batoque (sp?) in Brazilian music, etc.) as accompaniments - basically South American Dances and "rainforest" music (rhythms discovered in the rainforest jungles - and later those found in Africa similarly).

Be-Bop is more of a 1950s 60s form featuring chromatically inflected scales (called Be-bop scales) and eventually modes (Modal Jazz like Miles Davis' Kind of Blue) and modal treatments of traditional scales (things like Lydian Dominant). ALso it was cultivated by smaller ensembles (trios, quartets, etc.) and featured a lot of improvisation (Be-bop is considered to be "busy" by a lot of people, though that's an oversimplification on their part).

Interestingly, in the 60s Afro-Cuban Jazz saw a new influx of influences from Africa through the Carribean (it developed in Cuba and then came to America) in much the same way that American Jazz was influenced by Latin Styles that came from South America (though note, Ricky Ricardo was from Cuba). It's an interesting evolution how jazz started with African influences from slaves in America, melding Western European and African elements, while, in South America, the same thing was happening with the influence of Spanish culture on native peoples (who alsoe use African slaves in the Carribean).

You ought to poke around on a few websites or get some books on it as it really is cool how all these things sort of ebb and flow and constantly morph Jazz into various different forms.

Best,
Steve

[stevel]

Originally Posted by stevel

(who alsoe use African slaves in the Carribean).

Sorry - I had a lot of typos in this one - who also USED slaves - don't want to imply that I think there's still slave use the Carribean today!

Steve

[Shiva]

Wow, thanks for the great information! This was a great help to me thanks.

I've deffinatly got the jist of the different types but what about the musical aspects. Do they all use modes?

[Thorolf]

Later, in the primo ’90es, the term “Jungle” was coined for the breakbeat versions of Hard Core Techno.

Check it out here: http://www.music-web.org/ishkurs-gui...v2-5-t112.html

Regards

[stevel]

Originally Posted by Shiva

I've deffinatly got the jist of the different types but what about the musical aspects. Do they all use modes?

Depends on how you mean modes. Most early Jazz used Major and minor scales in much the same manner as tonal music, but with a lot of chromatic coloring. Blues (which of course comingles with Jazz) did so as well, but Blues also has strong folk elements intermingling Dorian and Mixolydian modes with Major and minor (Major, with a Mixolydian mode intermingled produces a "blue note" of a b7 (flat 7)).

To some degree, Be-Bop builds upon this phlisophy and uses a Mixolydian scale with an added #7, called Be-Bop Dominant. Be-Bop also makes use of the b5, another borrowing from Blues. So it's not really a mode per se, but it has a modal origin with chromatic coloration.

Check out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bebop

for more.

Afro-Cuban Jazz cam on the scene after Be-Bop, and many Bop players of course became interested in it. THe distinguishing characteristics of A-C are more about rhythm, instrumentation, and musical patterns, but it is safe to assume that players brought thier melodic and harmonic vocabularies with them.

Modal Jazz of course uses modes heavily. It tends to be an antithesis of both Major/minor tonal Jazz, and chromatically inflected blues influenced jazz. But there's a lot of grey area in all of these. It's safe to say that as Jazz evolved, Major/minor scales became colored by chromatic inflection and modal inflection, and then players began to "categorize" things by "scale/mode" (rather than key) and use the principles to create "new" (or new usages of older things in unusual ways) melodic and harmonic resources.

There's a lot to it but in the interest of brevity, I'll leave it at that and let you do a little research :-)

Steve

[stevel]

Originally Posted by Thorolf

Later, in the primo ’90es, the term “Jungle” was coined for the breakbeat versions of Hard Core Techno.

Check it out here: http://www.music-web.org/ishkurs-gui...v2-5-t112.html

Regards

Yeah - that's one of the things I meant. I think Shiva meant the "older" version though, Latin and Afro-Cuban Jazz.

It's funny to me how terms get forgotten, then re-used. R&B today is not what I knew as R&B as a kid. They used to use "progressive" for progressive rock in the 80s with R.E.M. - when I was a kid progressive rock was Yes and Emerson Lake and Palmer. Now it's become Prog-Rock for Dream Theater and the like.

Can't wait till bands that sound like Prodigy are called "Crooners"!

LSL

[Shiva]

It's funny to me how terms get forgotten, then re-used. R&B today is not what I knew as R&B as a kid. They used to use "progressive" for progressive rock in the 80s with R.E.M. - when I was a kid progressive rock was Yes and Emerson Lake and Palmer. Now it's become Prog-Rock for Dream Theater and the like.

LSL

Wow, that must get confusing. So many different terms. Thanks for the info on jazz, I've never really got into it or hada chance to play some. Any suggested listening? I'm going to go to my libary later in the week and rent some cds out.

[stevel]

Probably the most cited Jazz album is Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue". I personally believe everyone on the planet should own it (and I do not say that lightly).

It depends on what you like, but you might check out some different styles:
Big Band Swing - Glenn Miller Orchestra (you've heard many of these I bet).
Be-Bop - Charlie Parker (anything) or John Coltrane (look for Coltrane's "Giant Steps" or "Favorite Things".

If you're interesed in the history aspect, you might also check out some Dixie-Land, Ragtime, and New Orleans style Jazz.

If you're interested in how Jazz integrated with other things you might check out Western Swing, Gershwin's music, and if you like rock music, Jazz fusion of the 70s (promulgated by a lot of guitarists like Pat Metheney, and John Scofield, and more on the rock side, Jeff Beck). In fact, if you come from a rock background, fusion is often easier to take for some people because they're used to the sounds and insturmentation. Of course let's not forget Latin Jazz that has influences throughout the Jazz age. The most likely candidate I'd go with would be Antonio Carlos Jobim.

If you're intereseted in specific instruments, I can only tell you about guitarists - if which there are many, but Django Reinhardt is worth a listen to because it shows what Jazz was doing in France, with string bands and Gypsy influence (you've heard this sound before, and it's actually getting a bit of revival lately - the original USA series "Monk" theme and on many commercials). Charlie Christian worked with Benny Goodman which gives you another look at Big Band style. Then there's Wes Montgomery, and George Benson who had (and still have) long careers playing a variety of styles. There are of course many others.

If you're interested in figures who are important to Jazz's development, you have to look at people like Louis Armstong (New Orleans, Chicago, and even fought with the Beatles for the number 1 spot in 1964), Duke Ellington (Big Band), Geroge and Ira Gershwin, etc.

Finally, there are many current Jazz artists like Diana Krall or Harry Connick Jr., or even Brian Setzer and the Brian Setzer Orchestra who have re-popularized Jazz - Standards, Crooner/Big Band, and a new take on Big Band respectively. Diana Krall is a nice middle-of the road "standard" Jazz format which is a nice introduction for people who find some jazz a little too "out there" for them.

So there's a lot of angles you can attack this from, but I think you might do yourself better to have some sort of directed listening so you don't just get overwhelmed. And in case you can't figure it out, chronologically is always a good way to start!

Have Fun,
Steve

[Lord Wallace]

The amount of different musical genres these days is incredible really.
Just shows how music has fanned out and developed over the last 100 years, especially the last 50.