Lessons on Composition Techniques

[ttw]

One thing that is new (with the internet), one can post things with groups like Music-Web and get some feedback from strangers.

[ttw]

I do like the idea of people trying to explain what they do. It always helps organize one's thoughts as well as helping the others (even if it's only helping them avoid your own mistakes).

[MaestroX]

The fundamentals of composition by Walter Piston does not really explain the thought or process of composition, only really the techniques such as: phrases, motifs, modulation etc

The ideas here are great. Perhaps we could set somthing up to make this a reality?

[Stenir]

Walter Piston wrote a Fundamentals of Composition? Or did you mean Schoenberg? I have Schoenberg's, but I didn't know Piston wrote one as well.

I'll start work on something and hopefully post it by either tonight or tomorrow night. My wife asked me to compose something for her, and the way she described it (after it going through the composer part of my brain) it's going to be a long and thought out piece of music. Perfect for the initial run of this. Then again, it may have to become it's own topic so everyone can make their own threads. But threads can be moved later once this gets established.

[kenm]

Originally Posted by reith

[..]I don't believe that anyone can actually teach someone to compose music (or create in similar fields of Art) - the best you can hope is to be a good guide to help the student develop skill with various tools and a good aural imagination. The composer has to have that spark of creativity.

I still like the way I was taught: lots of exercises within various historical styles and others conforming to some techniques used for the first time by various 20th C. composers.

I also happen to agree with Maestrox in that student composers should be encouraged to explore a range of styles;

Agreed

and that a good basis in theory coulpled with practical skills like improvisation is imperative if the "teacher" is to give good value for money.[...]

Improvisation requires both quick thinking and fluent technical skills on an instrument. I'm sure they feed into composition if you have them, but I don't think they are essential. Did Berlioz or Ravel ever improvise?

[Stenir]

IMO, Composition is merely a form of improvisation. Just with much more time alotted to the creation of the music.

What we could do is to do our own separate threads on what we are composing and the whole thinking about it, then we can go back and compose a piece collectively, but we go rehearsal number to rehearsal number, or something like that. Everyone would do like the beginning to A, then stop, and we'd all post. We'd all review all of the various intros, pick the one we want, and then start from A and go to B. Rinse and repeat, until the end of the piece.

What do you all think? That would be cool, because we would all be putting in our thoughts on the same composition. Different thoughts, different viewpoints, and therefore, different composition results.

[ttw]

Ernst Toch's "The Shaping Forces in Music" can be useful here. There's an older book by Preston Ware Orem called "Theory and Composition of Music" that may be interesting. Orem gives some good exercises and examples. His derivations of various chords seems a bit strange, but his use of them is good.

[marcuslee]

Originally Posted by Stenir

If we can't do a sraight-up composition thread, perhaps we could do sort of a journal of a composition. We could go into detail about the thought process of the composition as the piece takes shape. Something similar to that. So intead of "here's how to compose", it's "here's how I composed". That also goes along with the thought that the best way to compose is to review scores of others, but this goes one step further by hearing the thoughts of the composer as the composition takes shape as opposed to trying to figure out what the composer was thinking and working off that.

I know this thread is a few weeks old, so I apologize if people have moved on.

However, I would also be interested in this journal idea. I realize that someone can't teach me to be a Mozart or a John Williams (my favorite composer), but hearing how other people do it I think would be of great help.

Here's a wild idea: someone post a simple tune or chord progression or something and participants compose a short piece based on that submission. And, in addition to their composed piece, they decribed how they came up with it. And, not just "I heard it in my head." But, if that's how you compose, that's fine. It just doesn't help us less talented.

Mark

[MaestroX]

Thats interesting yeah, how would you like it organised in the forum? I'm more than happy to set it up for you

[marcuslee]

Originally Posted by MaestroX

Thats interesting yeah, how would you like it organised in the forum? I'm more than happy to set it up for you

I posted my reply before I read Aephion's post on one of the other sub-forums. He's posted two challenges. I am presently working on the first ... giving a good go-round if nothing else.

In response to such challenges, it would be interesting to see what some others do to it, how they develop it. Then, for me at least, I can take a look at what I did to it and what someone else did, comparing them, giving me ideas for future ventures. I am more of an amatuer trial and error composer. I am working on hearing the music as some of the greats hear it, but I am far away from that.

Mark