Two pieces; which one do you like?

[PeterG]

Greetings all,

I finished two completely different tunes for piano and was wondering what you think of them and (if at all) which one you like and why.

#1: called Dreaming (couldn't think of anything else, but aam ope to better fitting title suggestions) :

hi-fi URL: http://www.soundclick.com/util/getpl...d=5540249&q=hi
lo-fi URL: http://www.soundclick.com/util/getpl...d=5540249&q=lo

#2 called The Devil's Elephant; a tune based on the tritone interval of C:

hi-fi URL: http://www.soundclick.com/util/getpl...d=5543811&q=hi
lo-fi URL: http://www.soundclick.com/util/getpl...d=5543811&q=lo

I'll attach the scores if you want; let me know.....

Anxiously awaiting your opinions,

Peter

[MaestroX]

Hi Peter,

I listened to "Dreaming" first, overall quite nice, I can see the potential in this piece. It seems to me that you definitely have an idea in your head but (forgive if I'm wrong) don't have the skills/experience to put it down on paper (well Finale) like you hear it in your head. I can hear fragments of inspiration in this piece that just need to be nurtured and brought out!

A score would be nice as your using traditional harmony I could probably point out any mistakes.

The next piece, "Devil's Elephant" reminds me of incidental music, it could accompany picture quite well. I think you could have made more of the texture of this, its generally the same rhythm in the left hand. I think you could make use of your pedal more by building up the tension and release the tension of the pedal with a quickening rhythm which would also round the phrases a bit more.

I also think a modulation would have kept the interest here a bit more. I see that you've tried to use a tritone motif, but it seems that we get too much of it. Try to develop this motif, invert it, extend it, play with it and have fun with it.

Hope this helps

[Ron Ofir]

First off, you seem to keep improving all the time, that is, each time your music sounds more and more "professional".

"Dreaming": I think it could have been better without so much reverb, or maybe using a smaller chamber, to give it a homely feeling. Other than that, there indeed some great ideas in there, but as Maestro said, it needs more cleaning and polishing. This is my favourite of the two.

"The Devil's Elephant": The name seems to fit the music quite well It's a bit too static in my opinion and could have used some more variation.

Best Regards,
Ron Ofir.

[PeterG]

greetings Maestro and Ron,

Thank you for the helpful comments.

Ron; I think you're right about the reverb and the sound in general and I'm convinced that a live performance will make it better than what I put into GPO, but that's all I have athe moment.

Maestro, the score for dreaming is attached. As usual with no pedaling. I studied some score of Schubert's Piano Sonata in a (D.784) the other day and noticed a lot of dynamics, slurs, pedaling etc. etc. is not written down but left to the imagination of the player. I could now state that that needs to be done on my music too to bring out the best in it (and Finale won't be able to do that).

Any comments on it I learn from, so be my guest to tear it apart as you see fit. You are right that the music in my mind is not the same as on the paper in the end; I sometimes cannot find the correct way to get it down. As I have to teach myself I'll stumble along with each writing and this is also why I like to post things here: not to show off but to help me develop the skill. It's frustrating to hear the things play in your mind but not be able to get it down as I want it to as all attempts I do to find the notes on the piano will also change / blurr the music inside..

I any case thanks for the listen and the comments and thank you Ron for the compliment !

Peter

[MaestroX]

I studied some score of Schubert's Piano Sonata in a (D.784) the other day and noticed a lot of dynamics, slurs, pedaling etc. etc. is not written down but left to the imagination of the player. I could now state that that needs to be done on my music too to bring out the best in it

The lack of dynamics, slurs, pedaling etc is quite an old fashioned approach used when composers such as Bach and Mozart had to churn out several pieces a week. This of course is completely dependant on the edition you have on the score (editors tend to add more detail to the score to aid performance). If you look at score of Mahler there are literally essays written on the parts! Every single detail his has noted about how the line should be played.

I think to really bring your score onto a new level you need to add more detail. Don't make the performer have to guess your intentions, that in my opinion will reduce the successfulness of a performance. Believe me there is nothing worse than sitting in a rehersal of one of your own works and being asked, "what is your intentions here?" or "how should this be played?" and not being able to come up with a sound answer because I didn't put much thought into it.

Writing concert/rectial music is just as much producing and notating it correctly as it is the notes which can all too easily be overlooked.

I printed out the first page of your score and gave it a play to try absorb some of your intentions and get a better idea of the piece and give the best advice I can.

As for your score, generally the above points I think are important. Your first page I can only see 2 dynamic markings, no articulation. Try to give the performer as much information as possible, Adagio unfortunatly dosn't give enough away.

As the harmony is generally conventional I can offer some advice to improve:

• Watch consectuive 5ths and 8va's (Bar 16, consectuive 8va in bass and right hand)
• Watch your inverted chords, you begin the piece on the first inversion tonic chord. This is unusual and may be more effective as a root position chord. Also in bar 23 you have 2nd inversion tonic chord which would almost always be approached by step and resolve to V.
• Just be carefull with the minor scale in general. You just have to be aware of the functions of both the harmonic and melodic minor scales. There are some parts where so harmonically weak chords are used which you can make more of by using an alternative chord.
• Another small point, but try to avoid doubling the leading note (inthe piece the C#), it just dilutes its effectiveness

As I have to teach myself I'll stumble along with each writing and this is also why I like to post things here: not to show off but to help me develop the skill.

We're all here to learn, and we can learn more of each other than reading any book.

I hope this has helped you out!

[PeterG]

Hi Maestro,

Your comments indeed are very, very helpful; the things you note I can understand very well and this will then allow me to revisit some parts and see if I can re-write to improve.

Originally Posted by MaestroX

I printed out the first page of your score and gave it a play to try absorb some of your intentions and get a better idea of the piece and give the best advice I can.

.. How much I would want to you hear your play you can't imagine...

Originally Posted by MaestroX

I hope this has helped you out!

Indeed, a lot ! Thank you !

[zman]

Hey Peter, I printed up "Dreaming" as well and read through it. For some reason, I couldn't get your sound files to play, but I just got a new laptop and haven't figured out all the bells and whistles yet, so the problem is likely at my end.

MaestroX has given you a lot of sound advice, and I can only second it. The one thing I will add is this: most people learning to write for the piano tend to forget just how large a range the instrument has. You could add some ringing octaves in the bass here and there, and move some of the right hand material into the upper register occasionally. That would give you a very sonorous effect (without really changing any of the notes you have written), and it would accentuate the "dreamy" character of the piece.

I could give you very specific suggestions if you would like. Also, perhaps you could post a pdf of "The Devil's Elephant" as well. I'd be happy to read through it.

[PeterG]

Hi John,

Attached the score of the elephant. This is not the best one I've made so far, personally I really liked Dreaming more but I had a lot of fun making the elephant walk.

I am very aware of the range of the instrument, but.... not so much on what's playable and what's not. I tend to find things impossible to play as I caanot imagine how on earth they should be played at all. This probably is the main reason for the limited range in my pieces.

Somewhere else you mentioned you've been playing through a piece of mine, that would be Dreaming I guess? Would you be able to record that so I can hear it too?
I so much want to hear how my pieces sound in the hands of a master. Finale + GPO still are better than my own play and my piano teacher does not want to play them for me (I have no clue why actually) and cannot record either. So in short they only live inside my head and through Finale + GPO.....

kind regards,

Peter