Sonata for trombone and piano in B minor

[ralphb]

Hello guys,

I want to show you my newest composition, a sonata for trombone and piano in traditional tonal style in the key of B minor. It lasts about 35 minutes and is in three movements:

MOVEMENT 1 - MOLTO ALLEGRO

The first movement roughly follows the sonata form .

Two remarks for the listener:

- at 10:45, the tromboist will play a solo cadanza
- at 11:42, there should be a deep pedal tone, whole note (B flat), but Finale unfortunately doesn't play it

Download: Sonate für Posaune und Klavier in h-Moll_ I. Molto allegro. ... at uploaded.to - Free File Hosting, Free Image Hosting, Free Music Hosting, Free Video Hosting, ...

MOVEMENT 2 - PRESTO - ANDANTE AMABILE

Being a little bit shorter than the first, the second movement still lasts about 9 1/2 minutes. It is actually a symbiosis of a Scherzo and a slow movement. It begins with a Presto (c# minor) which suddenly breaks off and an Andante amabile in the parallel key E major follows. The Andante consists of 2 themes. The second theme begins in B minor, which can be seen as a reminiscence of the first movement, but gets back to c# sharp minor after a while, and soon the Presto comes again. And last but not least, there's the first Andante theme again.
Thus the form is pretty simple: A - B - C - A' - B'

Download: Sonate für Posaune und Klavier in h-Moll_ II. Presto - Anda ... at uploaded.to - Free File Hosting, Free Image Hosting, Free Music Hosting, Free Video Hosting, ...

MOVEMENT 3 - GRAVE - ALLEGRO MOLTO MODERATO E GRAZIOSO - ALLEGRO ANIMATO

The third movement is a rondo with a slow introduction and a long coda. The introduction in B minor (although the tonic never appears) is based on the tritone interval. It leads into the Rondo which is in B major. At the end of the rondo, the tone row of the first movement appears again and leads into the coda, which presents a new theme and a part where nearly all of the themes of all movements are combined. At the very end, there's the tranquillo part of the developement of the first movement again which finishes the sonata quietly.

Download: Sonate für Posaune und Klavier in h-Moll_ III. Grave - Alle ... at uploaded.to - Free File Hosting, Free Image Hosting, Free Music Hosting, Free Video Hosting, ...

Some comments would be very kind!

Greetings,
ralphb

[stevel]

Originally Posted by ralphb

Hello guys,

I want to show you my newest composition, a sonata for trombone and piano in traditional tonal style in the key of B minor. It lasts about 35 minutes and is in three movements:

MOVEMENT 1 - MOLTO ALLEGRO

The first movement roughly follows the sonata form .

Two remarks for the listener:

- at 10:45, the tromboist will play a solo cadanza
- at 11:42, there should be a deep pedal tone, whole note (B flat), but Finale unfortunately doesn't play it

Download: Sonate für Posaune und Klavier in h-Moll_ I. Molto allegro. ... at uploaded.to - Free File Hosting, Free Image Hosting, Free Music Hosting, Free Video Hosting, ...

MOVEMENT 2 - PRESTO - ANDANTE AMABILE

Being a little bit shorter than the first, the second movement still lasts about 9 1/2 minutes. It is actually a symbiosis of a Scherzo and a slow movement. It begins with a Presto (c# minor) which suddenly breaks off and an Andante amabile in the parallel key E major follows. The Andante consists of 2 themes. The second theme begins in B minor, which can be seen as a reminiscence of the first movement, but gets back to c# sharp minor after a while, and soon the Presto comes again. And last but not least, there's the first Andante theme again.
Thus the form is pretty simple: A - B - C - A' - B'

Download: Sonate für Posaune und Klavier in h-Moll_ II. Presto - Anda ... at uploaded.to - Free File Hosting, Free Image Hosting, Free Music Hosting, Free Video Hosting, ...

MOVEMENT 3 - GRAVE - ALLEGRO MOLTO MODERATO E GRAZIOSO - ALLEGRO ANIMATO

The third movement is a rondo with a slow introduction and a long coda. The introduction in B minor (although the tonic never appears) is based on the tritone interval. It leads into the Rondo which is in B major. At the end of the rondo, the tone row of the first movement appears again and leads into the coda, which presents a new theme and a part where nearly all of the themes of all movements are combined. At the very end, there's the tranquillo part of the developement of the first movement again which finishes the sonata quietly.

Download: Sonate für Posaune und Klavier in h-Moll_ III. Grave - Alle ... at uploaded.to - Free File Hosting, Free Image Hosting, Free Music Hosting, Free Video Hosting, ...

Some comments would be very kind!

Greetings,
ralphb

A comment: post your finale files - post them as PDF if you're worried about someone downloading them and editing them.

Post your audio files at a place that plays them in the browser - it started me off at 10 minutes to download your first movement - even though I know it will take far less time than that, I'm not interested in sitting here downloading a file for even 2 minutes for a 35 minute work that I may or may not want to here. I'd rather click, have it start playing while it's downloading, and then cancel if I'm getting a severe case of the yawns.

Maybe this will elicit a few more people to try and listen to it, but I'm afraid that you'll not get much response from users here if you don't make it as easy as possible for them to listen to your tunes.

Best,
Steve

[stevel]

Originally Posted by stevel

A comment: post your finale files - post them as PDF if you're worried about someone downloading them and editing them.

Post your audio files at a place that plays them in the browser - it started me off at 10 minutes to download your first movement - even though I know it will take far less time than that, I'm not interested in sitting here downloading a file for even 2 minutes for a 35 minute work that I may or may not want to here. I'd rather click, have it start playing while it's downloading, and then cancel if I'm getting a severe case of the yawns.

Maybe this will elicit a few more people to try and listen to it, but I'm afraid that you'll not get much response from users here if you don't make it as easy as possible for them to listen to your tunes.

Best,
Steve

In fact, check out Peter G's "a small happy tune" post and you'll see a great example of what I'm talking about.

[ralphb]

Concerning the scores, I've decided to not put them online available to everyone. I'll PM them on request.

I could not upload the MP3s on my own webspace because they are simply to large... it's a very long sonata and it just makes sense if you listen to all of it carefully. Thus, either you've got the time (the download can happen in background and should take that long!) - I don't think you'll waste it, it think it is quite an enjoyable piece with its weaknesses as every non-professional composer has got them - or you haven't, then it doesn't matter, either

[ralphb]

So nobody's interested in listening?

What slow Internet connecten to you all have? I can download with around 600 kb/s from megaupload.com...

[PeterG]

Hi Ralph,

Because I'm a curious person I downloaded all three now, but..... UNBELIEVABLE what a bunch of crap (cookies, popups) come with this site! I was downloading at work and had the company firewall coming up 6 times or so...

A first inpression from movement 1; why a trombone?
The mixture seems a bit unbalanced. This was played with Finale? Or live? In the first case, try to do something with the mixer to make the piano come out a bit more..

Question; what kind of comments do you have in mind? general impressions? specific detailed things that you're not happy with?

Peter

[PeterG]

Hi Ralph,

I've been listening to all three of them several times now and here's my view on it;

in general I stick to my first impression that the trombone is a bit out of balance with the piano. I found myself wondering what the piece would sound like simply without the trombone? The piano parts sound like they can stand on their own. Maybe it's the rather, uhm, forceful sound of the trombone. Have you tried a clarinet for example? The piano is complex and balanced and delicate at times but never blunt. The trombone sometimes is..

In the presto of part 2 for example the trombone cannot really give the same presto feeling that the piano gives right from the start. For one because the melody lines are slow of course, but also because it's so dominant and blurs the contrast with the presto piano notes. As soon as you hit the Andante they are in nice balance, but then you bring them back to presto after 3-4 min or so...

I did not like the staccato (machine gun) notes in part 3 around 40 sec from start.... why are they in at all?

I wondered why you wanted 3 parts of this piece. You could also divide some more and make it a piece in 7 parts or so. Right now it seems a bit like you could not decide on what kind of peice it would be, so it goes on and on and as a listener I got the feeling "where is he going with this?"
I may be oldfashoined (most probably) but I like to understand where the music takes me; that doesn't mean you can't surprise but you have to take me back to where I came from in order to have the full effect of the surprise.

I cannot give you any more detailed comments (like: "in this or that section you should change chords or something"). To me the composition sounds like all the notes have been carefully thought of. Here or there I wondered why you chose a very modern bridge between two sections, but that's more of a style taste difference; it's not that I didn't like it, it's only that I wouldn't have done it this way.

Thanks for the listen and I wouldn't mind getting a score to study.

I wonder what Boneman thinks of it.....?


Peter

[ralphb]

Hello Peter,

thanks for listening and commenting! The balance problem could be because of Finale (yes, it has been recorded with Finale GPO), I think a real performance would solve it - despite of the presto part, where the piano part is indeed very virtuoso compared to the trombone - this is hopefully a minor problem, since the presto doesn't last very long.

The staccato in movement 3 (which is fluttertongue) I removed already, it's still in the files I uploaded. Yes, it sounds shit ;-)

I wondered why you wanted 3 parts of this piece. You could also divide some more and make it a piece in 7 parts or so. Right now it seems a bit like you could not decide on what kind of peice it would be, so it goes on and on and as a listener I got the feeling "where is he going with this?"

Well, as I'm the composer of the piece I don't have similar feelings of course. At least in the first movement, you should know what's going on, because it's in a clear sonata form (of course with some suprises, e. g. the exposition ending in B major). The second movement has got a very simple form: A - B - C - A' - B' with clearly divided parts. The third movement is a bit more difficult, being a rondo with an introduction and a coda. Nevertheless, the rondo theme should lead you through the movement, and at the end you hear several themes of all movements again. The very ending is taken out of the development of the exposition.
Maybe this will help ;-) I'll PM you the score.

Thanks again VERY much!

[PeterG]

Originally Posted by ralphb

Well, as I'm the composer of the piece I don't have similar feelings of course. At least in the first movement, you should know what's going on, because it's in a clear sonata form (of course with some suprises, e. g. the exposition ending in B major). The second movement has got a very simple form: A - B - C - A' - B' with clearly divided parts. The third movement is a bit more difficult, being a rondo with an introduction and a coda. Nevertheless, the rondo theme should lead you through the movement, and at the end you hear several themes of all movements again. The very ending is taken out of the development of the exposition.
Maybe this will help ;-) I'll PM you the score.

Thanks again VERY much!

Hi Ralph,

"...maybe this will help.." Well, assuming you don't mind me being totally honest: it doesn't. You see, I'm not trained in musical theory or structures, I have no clue what a clear sonata form is, I only listen to the music and try to grasp the "story" it tells. Of course I can hear the different parts and theme's returning etc. but to me these are in service of the story of the music. You talk about the form of it and I talk about the content.

See it as chapters of the story you tell. A new chapter in a book sometimes gives the impression that it has no connection to anything you have read before but when that gets solved later on in the book you forget that initial feeling and see the beauty of it. Well, if a book is made up entirely of chapters that are unrelated (i.e. there is no underlying story) it's not a good book anymore (in my view) no matter how well written the words are.

Why am I saying all this here? Well, your sonata did give me a bit the feeling that there's chapters in your book that I cannot place in the bigger frame.
Maybe it's just me, I will admit that I don't like poetry that consists of words that sounds nice only but don't have a clear story.

Thank you for the score, I want to study it and see how you have written some parts that I liked and hope to learn.

Peter

[VicDiesel]

Originally Posted by ralphb

What slow Internet connecten to you all have? I can download with around 600 kb/s from megaupload.com...

The server is giving it to me at 20KB/sec. Also I object to a download site that first pushes a site "Skin Video" in my face, then pops up another window at full screen size for something similar. I killed the download.

Victor.