Loose

[Student]

I'll be the first to admit that piano is my greatest weakness. I actually play relatively well, but for some reason I can't compose for it worth squat. Irritatingly enough I keep getting told that no one is take seriously without being able to compose for piano, so I keep trying and I keep failing.

This piece Loose (mp3), turned out tolerably. I started writing it as an exercise in making my own mode. It was fun to write, and it's fun to play (albeit a little too challenging for me).


Loose.pdf

[stevel]

I actually play relatively well, but for some reason I can't compose for it worth squat.

Really? This is fine. I think you may be talking about "idiomatic" writing but there are millions of works in the repertoire that are not idiomatic. Bach's Art of the Fugue - monster work, no specified instrumentation. It just is. It think it actually becomes a danger when writing too idiomatically for instruments in that what might be an atrociously fabulous technique on violin can only be appreciated when performed on violin. Kind of limiting in a way.

Irritatingly enough I keep getting told that no one is take seriously without being able to compose for piano, so I keep trying and I keep failing.

[me making coughing noise while saying bullshit]. Actually, it's probably more like you have to write Orchestral music before being taken seriously. John Cage? Karlheinz Stockhausen? Wagner? Not exactly big piano composers. Bach - no piano, wasn't invented yet. Lathan, both of the things you're seeing here are these holdovers from the overblown Romantic Period way of thinking. Yes, there are many people still living with that mindset that you have to compare to Beethoven. Fortunately, they're dying off. You should concentrate on learning to compose for everything. Learn as much as you can - especially now since you're talking about graduate school. I'll tell you a story - Adolphous Hailstork, who is a relatively well-known and often-performed composer is Faculty with me. Last year he wrote a piece for wind ensemble to be played for some university anniversary. There were instrumentation problems. He's our orchestration instructor! It is so refreshing for someone of his stature to admit that wind ensemble is not under his belt yet, and he was willing to accept help from the ensemble director and others to re-orchestrate the weak parts more effectively. So his ability to compose is not bad - only his ability compose for this "instrument" - which he now learned to do. So I say concentrate on composing and getting your ideas down, and worry about the instruments as they come up. If you spend all your time learning Piano Composition you might get a body of work like Chopin - piano pieces only!

This piece Loose (mp3), turned out tolerably. I started writing it as an exercise in making my own mode. It was fun to write, and it's fun to play (albeit a little too challenging for me).

What do you find tolerable about it?

I have to say, I feel the entire 3/4 section is weak. Largely because it doesn't come off as triple meter. It sounds like constant fluctuation or, really, uncertainty (even without seeing the score). Is this 3 or 4? Now, you may have wanted that, but for me, coming off the pretty obvious 4/4 - and sometimes even with a Rag-Time feel, the 3/4 section is not so effective. It's like "what the hell is going on here".

Gb? Do you WANT to scare people away? :-)

You know, I don't mind Gb, and advanced piano works are in such keys. But why not make it in G. Less advanced players will be able to play it. Or make two versions - hell, who knows when a piano will have sat for so long untuned that it will be a half step low anyway!!! Click transpose, make a version in G. If you want to keep a version in Gb because that's how you composed it, fine. I see what you're doing with the whole Black Key and pentatonic/blues scale thing - which of course works on piano - but I guarantee that's going to be lost on some people who attempt to play it. My advice would be to make things as accessible as possible - if you're already concerned about your piano-writing ability then you definitely shouldn't be doing things to scare people away - and even though it's wrong, many people shy away from too many accidentals in the key sig!

Peace,
Steve

[Student]

I think my piano writing is actually fairly idiomatic, it would only work on a piano and none of it is too awkward to play. I think the problem is more that the piano has a very limited pitch and color palette, as an instrument it has one of the widest ranges but the fewest options within that range.* Since I see it in that way, as a powerful harmonic instrument but a melodic and timbrel deficient it becomes impossible to write skillfully for it.

As for the piano being an instrument that a composer must be able for which to write, it is a Romantic holdover. However, it's a powerful one. Rachmaninaff, Debussy, Liszt, Chopin and many more were primarily piano composers, and in many schools the piano is the best gauge of how well a composer can write. Oh, and it's no worry about the majority of my works being piano. I write at least five or six other works for each of my piano solos. My largest body of work is vocal solo (normally accompanied by piano) followed by instrumental ensembles and then organ solos. I enjoy the piano as an instrument and would like to be able to write more proficiently for it, but I certainly don't consider it the overriding priority in my composition career.

3/4 section now. I pretty much have to agree with you, the section needed to be less stable than the 4/4 section, but I think I got carried away. The bass is generally moving in phrases of 4.5 beats while the treble goes in 3, which is just plain weird. It certainly created instability.

Trust me, someone who is scared away by the Gb would have a hard time playing this... I had to work to get it to the point where I could stand to play it. Now, after transposing it to see how it fits and playing through it a few times I think that G causes a few major difficulties in the runs. I'll give the option to transpose it through Scorch and if I ever publish I'll get someone who hasn't played it before to run it in G and see if it's more difficult or not.

*Although, if one can write for piano timbre skillfully as Debussy did, there are hundreds of possible variations that can create impressions and ideas. I might actually try an impressionistic style for piano now that I contemplated it; it may be more successful.

[stevel]

Since I see it in that way, as a powerful harmonic instrument but a melodic and timbrel deficient it becomes impossible to write skillfully for it.

Playing Devil's Advocate, since you see it that way, that means the problem is not with the instrument, but the way you perceive the instrument :-). One might also continue that, because it is timbrally deficient, one must concentrate on making music from other factors and not relying on timbre as yet another crutch. After all, Harpsichord doesn't even allow for dynamics but plenty of great music has been written for it. So my point before, and still is - music first. Make sure the music is good. Then the instrument, or the orchestration, etc. should serve to enhance it.

I enjoy the piano as an instrument and would like to be able to write more proficiently for it, but I certainly don't consider it the overriding priority in my composition career.

Good - I think that's a reasonable approach.

3/4 section now. I pretty much have to agree with you,

Phew - you've been sort of counter to many other things I've said, I was afraid you might come up with a counter argument here too.

the section needed to be less stable than the 4/4 section, but I think I got carried away.

Yes - I agree. A little too far in the wrong direction.

The bass is generally moving in phrases of 4.5 beats while the treble goes in 3, which is just plain weird. It certainly created instability.

Certainly did. And if you want that sort of instability that's certainly one way to attain it. But here, since you agree, it's obviously a little too unstable for what you've already set up. But I bet you could rework it - there are some really nice ideas in there - the repeated descending melody - the 16th-16th-8th figures - really nice stuff in there. I think it just needs a different "wrapper" so to speak.

Trust me, someone who is scared away by the Gb would have a hard time playing this...

I think you are overestimating the difficulty. I could sit down and sight read this in G. In Gb, it's going to take me a bit longer. But maybe scare away was too strong (just trying to make a point) - let's say - people will often skip over multi-accidental works in favor of a fewer accidental work, in much the same way they'll skip over something in 11/16, or with 128th notes all over the place. It's less a question of overall difficulty, and more a question of potential performer perception. Damn, 3Ps!

Now, after transposing it to see how it fits and playing through it a few times I think that G causes a few major difficulties in the runs.

Yes - such is always the problem. But what you should do is have a couple of pianists at varying levels try it - and don't lead them so you get a fair result :-)

I'll give the option to transpose it through Scorch and if I ever publish I'll get someone who hasn't played it before to run it in G and see if it's more difficult or not.

Well, go ahead and do this now. You can probably find someone in college, or local piano studios and so on. You really should get a couple of pianists' input on something like this. It never hurts and you can often find gems of wisdom in their comments.

Best,
Steve

[VicDiesel]

Originally Posted by Student

This piece Loose (mp3), turned out tolerably. I started writing it as an exercise in making my own mode. It was fun to write, and it's fun to play (albeit a little too challenging for me).

Since it's called "loose" and you find it "tolerably" and "fun" I think you won't be insulted if I call it a cute little ditty. Certainly pleasant to listen, apart from the middle part, as already remarked on earlier.

Could you explain about "making your own mode"?

Victor.