Annie's Rose (Recording!)

[Will Kirk]

Hey guys

Here is the first track to my cd "Soulace" Keep in mind that this is my first attempt at something like this, however in keeping with the title of the CD I do intend for it to sound like a bedroom recording, not cheap sounding, just recorded in a bedroom

I wrote the piece during a short burst of inspiration about 2 weeks ago, the title is kind of a play on the person I wrote it for. Her name is Annie, however her middle name is Rose. So I thought, hey, why not?

Anyway, comments on both the piece and any ideas for a better recording are appreciated

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/defa...&content=music

Anyway, comments appreciated

EDIT: I apologize for the double post, mods please delete one of these threads

[stevel]

Originally Posted by Will Kirk

any ideas for a better recording are appreciated

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/defa...&content=music

Anyway, comments appreciated

EDIT: I apologize for the double post, mods please delete one of these threads

Will, how did you record this? I listened to the Lagrima and the quality is much better. Annie's Rose is a little quiet in comparison (though the sound quality of the guitar itself is good).

Do you have a good condenser mic?

I think you'll find it sounds much more "bedroomy" if you can use an omni-directional mic (and toy with the distance to the guitar). Close-miking tends to take away a lot of the sense of "room".

What software are you recording into? You could also make it sound better by trimming up the beginnings and endings of your takes????

Steve

[Will Kirk]

Originally Posted by stevel

Will, how did you record this? I listened to the Lagrima and the quality is much better. Annie's Rose is a little quiet in comparison (though the sound quality of the guitar itself is good).

Do you have a good condenser mic?

I think you'll find it sounds much more "bedroomy" if you can use an omni-directional mic (and toy with the distance to the guitar). Close-miking tends to take away a lot of the sense of "room".

What software are you recording into? You could also make it sound better by trimming up the beginnings and endings of your takes????

Steve

Well I'm still getting used to using different mic positions and such, the microphone I currently have is a AT3035 by Audio Technica, my problem with Annie's Rose is that I didn't have enough input gain and so it ends up being kind of quiet, that's why Lagrima sounds much better, I cranked up the input gain a bit and the result is seen

I will try what you suggested, any suggestions for a good omni-mic?

Well here's my problem with software, I don't have a computer with the proper utensils for a good editing program (ie Reason, Pro Tools etc...) the computer I use to post here and visit the web is a family computer and doesn't have the means to run such a program (believe me, I've tried alot of different ones over the last few months)

For now I do all the editing manually with my mixer and recording devices, I know it's pretty Spartan but until I can get myself a good laptop and some kind of editing software it'll have to do

That does bring up another question, what software would you recommend that's under 400 to 300$?

[stevel]

I will try what you suggested, any suggestions for a good omni-mic?

If I could have but one mic, it would be an AKG C 414. If I could have two, it would be a pair of those!

They're good for everything.

For guitar more specifically (but still useful in many other situations), the Neumann K183 is a favorite (people like LA Guitar Quartet use them).

Those are both on the high price end of the spectrum, but if you're getting into recording, a pair of each of those (or, a pair of C 414s and a pair of CARDIOD K18X (they have different numberings for various patterns) would be a lifetime investment as they'll be usable for a long time to come (or until they figure out how to make USB mics sound good!).

On the lower side of the spectrum, the AKG Perception series looks interesting, though I've had no direct experience with them. They're reviewing well though.

The Perception 400 is like a "budget" version of the 414 with the switchable patterns, pad, and high pass filter (all important features).

The Rode NT 55s are good, but you have to unscrew the cardioid capsule and put the omni one on to switch. Not a big deal, but I always figure, the more messing around you do with a mic, the more chance for damage. However, those Neumann's are sold the same way - you can buy a K100 body, then buy an 83 or 84 capsule, and screw them on, making a K183 or K 184, etc. So again, the Rode NT55s are like "budget" Neumanns.

For a little bit more though, a a large diaphragm Rode NT2-A would be nicer (even closer to a 414).

We shouldn't neglect the Shure KSM series though - the KSM 141 is nice, but the KSM 44 is the deal (and back up where the 414s are).

Here's what you want Will:

If you're going to record a single, mono track, it would be better to use a LARGE diaphragm mic with switchable patterns. You'd use Omni to capture room sound, and cardiod to capture more direct signal (i.e. close mic). Having a mic with a switchable pattern is nice for this.

If you're going to record STEREO, a matched pair of SMALL diaphragm CARDIODS is going to be better, unless you're recording in a really nice space, at which point I'd go back to omnis. I'm not as crazy about small diaphragm omnis though, but, if you bought something small diaphragm and it was switchable, you'd still be in good shape.

That does bring up another question, what software would you recommend that's under 400 to 300$?

Cubase Essential. I think it's 149 bucks. You can get Cubase 4 for 400 if you're eligible for academic discount. I'd stay away from Ableton, and I'm not so crazy about Sonar.

Another tricky thing you can do is buy an audio interface like a Lexicon Lambda and Cubase LE comes with it free (the only thing is, the Lambda is not Phantom Powered for your condenser mics). I use it in the classroom and we have no problems using digital audio on iMacs (YMMV with a PC like my Windoze XP system works with the same Cubase LE, just not as efficiently - not bad though). You can upgrade from LE to Essential, or 4 later.

I'd say if I could, I'd use Pro Tools, but if I had an Apple, I'd use Logic. If I couldn't afford either of those (which I can't) I'd use Cubase (which I do). :-)

[Will Kirk]

Originally Posted by stevel

If you're going to record STEREO, a matched pair of SMALL diaphragm CARDIODS is going to be better, unless you're recording in a really nice space, at which point I'd go back to omnis. I'm not as crazy about small diaphragm omnis though, but, if you bought something small diaphragm and it was switchable, you'd still be in good shape.

What about Stereo with an onboard pickup (on the guitar) run through a seperate preamp and the mic through another?

Originally Posted by stevel

Cubase Essential. I think it's 149 bucks. You can get Cubase 4 for 400 if you're eligible for academic discount. I'd stay away from Ableton, and I'm not so crazy about Sonar.

Another tricky thing you can do is buy an audio interface like a Lexicon Lambda and Cubase LE comes with it free (the only thing is, the Lambda is not Phantom Powered for your condenser mics). I use it in the classroom and we have no problems using digital audio on iMacs (YMMV with a PC like my Windoze XP system works with the same Cubase LE, just not as efficiently - not bad though). You can upgrade from LE to Essential, or 4 later.

I'd say if I could, I'd use Pro Tools, but if I had an Apple, I'd use Logic. If I couldn't afford either of those (which I can't) I'd use Cubase (which I do). :-)

I'll definitely try to get my hands on Cubase Essential, sounds just like what I'm looking for

[Boneman]

I do not know about the techy chat but for me the piece was delightful!

The last few bars seemed a little at odds with the rest of it but I really enjoyed listening to it.

[PeterG]

Originally Posted by Boneman

I do not know about the techy chat but for me the piece was delightful!

The last few bars seemed a little at odds with the rest of it but I really enjoyed listening to it.

Full agreement here Boneman.

It seems to me the last few bars are the perfect introduction to the "next part" of it. At least that's how I perceived (do you write that like that?) it.

I'd go on and write something to follow up on it. Maybe something less, uhm, I wanna say "shy" ? The tune sounds fragile, soft and a bit shy. Now that you've got her in your bedroom and listening to your music I'd go and turn it into something a little more confident..... "Bedroom eyes"... how's that?

Anyways, thanks for the listen. I do enjoy the sound of a guitar like that.

Peter

[stevel]

What about Stereo with an onboard pickup (on the guitar) run through a seperate preamp and the mic through another?

Well, many people will use a close mic and distant mic pair to give good pickup of the guitar sound, and also include the room sound. But usually these are 2 mono tracks blended together.

You could do a stereo pair, and the close mic which would be the best of both worlds.

I've got to say, I've never been very fond of onboard, or even soundhole-mounted mics. They tend to get a little too "thumpy" because the often pick up a lot of the internal sound and top vibrations. Fishman does make a nice set-up that has a contact pickup in the bridge and a mic (on a little gooseneck) in the soundhole. It's one of the most realistic ones I've heard - but of course I assume your guitar may already have the stuff mounted.

I'd say basically, any mic "on" the guitar can substitute for any other close-miking, but distance is distance, and if you want some depth, and some space, distant mics, especially a stereo pair (in combination with a close mic or not) are great. However, logistically, there's a lot more involved so for some people, it's more trouble than it's worth.

HTH,
Steve

[Will Kirk]

Pete and Boneman: I'm glad you both liked it, I do agree the last few bars are a little at odds with the rest of the piece, I might do as you suggest and continue it with something in the future

Steve: As for an onboard pickup I'm only using the cheapest Fishman available, but I will consider all your advice for future recordings